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Old 09-11-2019, 08:12 AM
 
9,942 posts, read 5,971,215 times
Reputation: 9880

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Quote:
Originally Posted by UNC4Me View Post
No, they’ll be sure the child qualifies and document the findings that led them to issuing a waiver. If a doctor is following guidelines they’re not going to be sanctioned no matter how many exemptions they sign. I would imagine that if a doctor like a pediatric oncologist has a higher number of exemptions than a general pediatrician, that’s not going to raise any red flags. While the CA gerontologist who was signing waivers for school kids definitely did.

And you didn’t answer my question. Are you opposed to all medical oversight by a state or just this oversight?

I think your viewpoint is very naive and comes from the perspective of someone who has never had a friend or family member suffer an adverse reaction to a vaccine. This is a very privileged position.

This article highlights Bay Area doctors who gave out the most medical exemptions. It puts their names in print and targets them as being “anti-vaccine. That type of scrutiny alone will certainly deter doctors from giving exemptions in addition to the new law. https://www.mercurynews.com/2019/06/...al-exemptions/

The highest number of medical exemptions came from a doctor named Stoller who issued 38 over a four year period. Less then 10 medical exemptions a year gets your name in the newspaper! Baer issued 24 in a four year period, 7 per year. Next up, Sonneman with 14 over a 4 year period, 3.5 per year. That is below the threshold set by the law yet is still newsworthy. Kennedy with 2.75 per year. Lars with 2 per year. Sutton with less then 2 per year. These are the docs giving out the most exemptions in the Bay Area. Do those numbers really scream, crisis to anyone who still has the ability to think critically?


Some other excerpts from the article.
Quote:
“Most people who have asked their primary care providers for exemptions are turned down out of hand. Most docs won’t even have a conversation,” Lonna Larsh, a Santa Cruz doctor who signed eight exemptions in the survey, told this news organization in a text message.
Quote:
“There are only a few physicians around the state writing exemptions,” Stoller’s attorney, Rick Jaffe, said. “Most people think people are getting these vaccine exemptions simply because they’re philosophically opposed, but especially with Stoller’s patients, I haven’t seen that. The parents who have called me up, every single one of them is a vaccine-injured family.”

 
Old 09-11-2019, 08:18 AM
Status: "Fall is Here!" (set 7 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,594 posts, read 103,752,999 times
Reputation: 33443
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
Patient zero in California's recent outbreak was an adult. This thread is about the legislation to limit Medical Exemptions for all school children in CA.
Document.

Patient Zero in the Disneyland outbreak (ancient history now) was never found.
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6406a5.htm
"The source of the initial Disney theme park exposure has not been identified."

Nor was Patient Zero in the Somali-Minnesotan outbreak identified.
https://www.health.state.mn.us/disea...7/measles.html
"Though the source for the outbreak remains unknown"

UNC4Me already stated that the Rockland County NY outbreak was caused by a child.
 
Old 09-11-2019, 08:25 AM
 
9,942 posts, read 5,971,215 times
Reputation: 9880
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt View Post
Document.

Patient Zero in the Disneyland outbreak (ancient history now) was never found.
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6406a5.htm
"The source of the initial Disney theme park exposure has not been identified."

Nor was Patient Zero in the Somali-Minnesotan outbreak identified.
https://www.health.state.mn.us/disea...7/measles.html
"Though the source for the outbreak remains unknown"

UNC4Me already stated that the Rockland County NY outbreak was caused by a child.
I’m talking about the most recent measles outbreak from 2019. An adult brought measles back from overseas. The CA outbreak that occurred after CA took away philosophical and religious exemptions.

A reminder that this thread is about the legislation that just passed in California in regards to vaccines and medical exemptions. Not about NY or any other states, nor is it about measles, specifically.
 
Old 09-11-2019, 08:28 AM
Status: "Move along." (set 13 days ago)
 
9,065 posts, read 11,070,813 times
Reputation: 13170
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtovenice View Post
Why the obsession with forcing people to do things that they do not want to do?
That's the worrisome thing here. I'm not an anti vaccine person, but you have to look at individuals, too, their specific set of circumstances. When people get militant in their beliefs, either way, it's concerning. I think education to parents is important. They can have a belief system that is totally based on hearsay and fear, which isn't helpful for making good decisions. But, some of their worries may be founded ones. People do have experiences from/after vaccines that warrant a further question mark. I see both sides of this.
 
Old 09-11-2019, 08:30 AM
 
6,833 posts, read 4,721,023 times
Reputation: 13544
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
I think your viewpoint is very naive and comes from the perspective of someone who has never had a friend or family member suffer an adverse reaction to a vaccine. This is a very privileged position.

This article highlights Bay Area doctors who gave out the most medical exemptions. It puts their names in print and targets them as being “anti-vaccine. That type of scrutiny alone will certainly deter doctors from giving exemptions in addition to the new law. https://www.mercurynews.com/2019/06/...al-exemptions/

The highest number of medical exemptions came from a doctor named Stoller who issued 38 over a four year period. Less then 10 medical exemptions a year gets your name in the newspaper! Baer issued 24 in a four year period, 7 per year. Next up, Sonneman with 14 over a 4 year period, 3.5 per year. That is below the threshold set by the law yet is still newsworthy. Kennedy with 2.75 per year. Lars with 2 per year. Sutton with less then 2 per year. These are the docs giving out the most exemptions in the Bay Area. Do those numbers really scream, crisis to anyone who still has the ability to think critically?


Some other excerpts from the article.
I really don’t care if a doctor wrote 1 bogus waiver or 1,000. They should be sanctioned. We have LOTS of laws that stemmed from one person doing something wrong. Like the shoe bomber guy who’s responsible for all of us having to take our shoes off to go through airport security.

And the numbers don’t lie. When personal belief was removed as a reason for avoiding vaccines, medical waivers rose over 300%. Do you believe that there were suddenly 300% more kids who had legitimate medical reasons for not being vaccinated? Talk about naïveté.
 
Old 09-11-2019, 08:37 AM
 
6,833 posts, read 4,721,023 times
Reputation: 13544
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nanny Goat View Post
That's the worrisome thing here. I'm not an anti vaccine person, but you have to look at individuals, too, their specific set of circumstances. When people get militant in their beliefs, either way, it's concerning. I think education to parents is important. They can have a belief system that is totally based on hearsay and fear, which isn't helpful for making good decisions. But, some of their worries may be founded ones. People do have experiences from/after vaccines that warrant a further question mark. I see both sides of this.
No one is being forcibly vaccinated in California or anywhere else. If a parent doesn’t want their kid vaccinated, the kid doesn’t get vaccinated.

But, in California and every other state, there are laws mandating vaccines for daycare, K-12 and even college attendance. These laws are no different than others that protect public health. If a parent refuses vaccines, I support them making that choice. I also support them having to bear the consequences of that choice in the form of finding other alternatives for educating their child.
 
Old 09-11-2019, 08:39 AM
Status: "Fall is Here!" (set 7 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,594 posts, read 103,752,999 times
Reputation: 33443
Quote:
Originally Posted by corpgypsy View Post
California Erodes Medical Exemptions for Vaccines


This is false.

The few children who legitimately have a risk to vaccines and therefore are not vaccinated will be made safer by attending a school that has a vaccinated population. They will not be kept from school. And those parents who choose to put their children at risk from preventable diseases can continue to do so as they find alternative educational sources that will not endanger the Public Health.

And contrary to what a few posters here are implying and spreading no one is forcing anyone to be vaccinated against their will or undermining valid medical exemptions. It is disingenuous to say otherwise and legislation that allows Public Health officials to better protect the Public Health is a no brainer and is not taking away liberties or choice. It will however protect all children in public school from the risks associated with the rising number of bogus medical exemptions.

Refusing vaccination for reasons other than a serious medical condition is unfair and dangerous to those who can’t protect themselves. Those who remain unvaccinated pose a great risk to many, including: all children under 1 year old who are too young to be vaccinated, older adults who don’t know their immunity has lapsed and others with impaired immune systems and those small numbers for whom immunization is medically contraindicated.

The elimination of the personal belief exemptions and verifying the validity of medical exemptions will prevent suffering and save lives. It is the right thing to do.

Vaccines work by protecting individuals, but their strength really lies in the ability to protect one’s neighbors. When there are not enough people within a community who are immunized, we are all at risk.

Personal, religious belief and bogus medical exemptions should be curtailed because some people, whether because of age or compromised immune systems, cannot receive vaccines. They depend on those around them to be protected. Vaccines aren’t the only situation in which we are asked to care about our neighbors. Following traffic laws, drug tests at work, paying taxes — these may go against our beliefs and make us bristle, but we ascribe to them because without this shared responsibility, civil society doesn’t work.

Public health is no different.

An individual parent does not have the right to have their child in a public school if that child is unvaccinated, for the same reason health care workers should not be unvaccinated. It all comes down to a very simple reality: It puts other children at risk.

If you want to rely on the public trust then you have an obligation to the public trust as well, and part of that obligation is not sending your child to the public school and public places with other children if they aren’t immunized against preventable, communicable diseases.

When it comes to issues of public health and safety we invariably have laws. Many of these laws are strictly enforced and immutable. For example, we don’t allow philosophical exemptions to restraining young children in car seats or smoking in restaurants or stopping at stop signs.

People of course have the right to put their own child at risk and that is their choice, but they do not have the right to put everyone else in society at risk due to their unfounded fears and debunked opinions and personal beliefs.

(Will have to substitute for rep until I can rep you again!)
 
Old 09-11-2019, 08:41 AM
Status: "Fall is Here!" (set 7 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,594 posts, read 103,752,999 times
Reputation: 33443
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
I’m talking about the most recent measles outbreak from 2019. An adult brought measles back from overseas. The CA outbreak that occurred after CA took .

A reminder that this thread is about the legislation that just passed in California in regards to vaccines and medical exemptions. Not about NY or any other states, nor is it about measles, specifically.
So post a link! I am unaware of any outbreak in CA in the past few years.

Last edited by Katarina Witt; 09-11-2019 at 09:04 AM..
 
Old 09-11-2019, 09:03 AM
 
9,942 posts, read 5,971,215 times
Reputation: 9880
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nanny Goat View Post
That's the worrisome thing here. I'm not an anti vaccine person, but you have to look at individuals, too, their specific set of circumstances. When people get militant in their beliefs, either way, it's concerning. I think education to parents is important. They can have a belief system that is totally based on hearsay and fear, which isn't helpful for making good decisions. But, some of their worries may be founded ones. People do have experiences from/after vaccines that warrant a further question mark. I see both sides of this.

You hit the nail on the head. A very rational and reasonable post.
 
Old 09-11-2019, 09:07 AM
 
9,942 posts, read 5,971,215 times
Reputation: 9880
Quote:
Originally Posted by UNC4Me View Post
I really don’t care if a doctor wrote 1 bogus waiver or 1,000. They should be sanctioned. We have LOTS of laws that stemmed from one person doing something wrong. Like the shoe bomber guy who’s responsible for all of us having to take our shoes off to go through airport security.

And the numbers don’t lie. When personal belief was removed as a reason for avoiding vaccines, medical waivers rose over 300%. Do you believe that there were suddenly 300% more kids who had legitimate medical reasons for not being vaccinated? Talk about naïveté.

How do you know the waivers were bogus? The practice of Medicine is both art and science. By declaring that only a small subset of adverse reactions can be considered you severely limit a doctor’s ability to practice medicine. It’s not all black and white nor should it be.

Medical waivers rose from .02% to .07%. I think that some of the parents who had previously utilized the other types of waivers due to them being easier to obtain even though their children had had serious adverse reactions in the past, or they had a family member with a serious adverse reaction then sought out medical waivers. At least one of the doctor’s interviewed who had been giving out the most waivers (still not a high number) said that she denied 7 out of 10 requests.

This legislation went after a half of a percent of school children in CA as well as doctors.
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