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Old 09-11-2019, 09:09 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UNC4Me View Post
No one is being forcibly vaccinated in California or anywhere else. If a parent doesn’t want their kid vaccinated, the kid doesn’t get vaccinated.

But, in California and every other state, there are laws mandating vaccines for daycare, K-12 and even college attendance. These laws are no different than others that protect public health. If a parent refuses vaccines, I support them making that choice. I also support them having to bear the consequences of that choice in the form of finding other alternatives for educating their child.
You can repeat that same line a million times and it doesn’t make it true. The elimination and erosion of exemptions in CA does severely limit choice.

 
Old 09-11-2019, 09:11 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt View Post
So post a link! I am unaware of any outbreak in CA in the past few years.

That’s weird because I’m sure we’ve discussed it before and you were actively involved in that discussion. Here’s one article about measles cases in CA in 2019. If you’re interested, feel free to use google to read more about it.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/measles...s-quarantined/
 
Old 09-11-2019, 09:14 AM
 
6,835 posts, read 4,726,011 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
You can repeat that same line a million times and it doesn’t make it true. The elimination and erosion of exemptions in CA does severely limit choice.
It limits educational choice. It does not limit the choice to vaccinate or not.
 
Old 09-11-2019, 09:19 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UNC4Me View Post
It limits educational choice. It does not limit the choice to vaccinate or not.

That’s huge.
 
Old 09-11-2019, 09:20 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
How do you know the waivers were bogus? The practice of Medicine is both art and science. By declaring that only a small subset of adverse reactions can be considered you severely limit a doctor’s ability to practice medicine. It’s not all black and white nor should it be.

Medical waivers rose from .02% to .07%. I think that some of the parents who had previously utilized the other types of waivers due to them being easier to obtain even though their children had had serious adverse reactions in the past, or they had a family member with a serious adverse reaction then sought out medical waivers. At least one of the doctor’s interviewed who had been giving out the most waivers (still not a high number) said that she denied 7 out of 10 requests.

This legislation went after a half of a percent of school children in CA as well as doctors.
I don’t know for sure and neither do you. I’m ok with the state making that determination based on medically supported reason not to vaccinate. Do you think doctors like Robert Sears should be able to make up their own rules even if they constitute gross negligence?

From the link below:

“Dr. Robert Sears, a pediatrician infamous for promoting alternative vaccine schedules that allow parents to delay or entirely avoid the life-saving jabs, has been placed on a 35-month probation by the Medical Board of California.

The punishment stems from an accusation filed by the board in 2016 claiming Sears demonstrated gross negligence in the case of a two-year-old. The board alleged that Sears gave the young patient an exemption from all future vaccinations without reviewing any of the child’s medical records, including those that indicate which vaccines the child had received and any subsequent reactions the child suffered. Sears instead relied on an account from the child’s mother, who said the child went limp and that the child’s kidneys and intestines “shut down” after vaccinations.

The board also cited Sears for later examining the child for a head injury after the child had reportedly been “‘hit on head with hammer’ by Dad.” Sears failed to follow up with standard neurological testing, the board wrote.Sears agreed to settle the case.”

https://www.google.com/amp/s/arstech...gence/%3famp=1
 
Old 09-11-2019, 09:24 AM
 
9,986 posts, read 5,983,982 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UNC4Me View Post
I don’t know for sure and neither do you. I’m ok with the state making that determination based on medically supported reason not to vaccinate. Do you think doctors like Robert Sears should be able to make up their own rules even if they constitute gross negligence?

From the link below:

“Dr. Robert Sears, a pediatrician infamous for promoting alternative vaccine schedules that allow parents to delay or entirely avoid the life-saving jabs, has been placed on a 35-month probation by the Medical Board of California.

The punishment stems from an accusation filed by the board in 2016 claiming Sears demonstrated gross negligence in the case of a two-year-old. The board alleged that Sears gave the young patient an exemption from all future vaccinations without reviewing any of the child’s medical records, including those that indicate which vaccines the child had received and any subsequent reactions the child suffered. Sears instead relied on an account from the child’s mother, who said the child went limp and that the child’s kidneys and intestines “shut down” after vaccinations.

The board also cited Sears for later examining the child for a head injury after the child had reportedly been “‘hit on head with hammer’ by Dad.” Sears failed to follow up with standard neurological testing, the board wrote.Sears agreed to settle the case.”

https://www.google.com/amp/s/arstech...gence/%3famp=1
No I don’t think the state should intervene in the doctor patient relationship. I think Dr. Sears is being used as a scapegoat and poster boy for this new law. I don’t know enough about his case to know if he really is guilty of what the media is stating. I would have to read a lot more about it in order to have an informed opinion.
 
Old 09-11-2019, 09:24 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
That’s huge.
I agree, it is. Choices always have consequences.
 
Old 09-11-2019, 09:28 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UNC4Me View Post
I agree, it is. Choices always have consequences.
Some people who have legit adverse reactions but you’ seem so sure that you know everything that you’re fine with that. Kids will be hurt by this law.
 
Old 09-11-2019, 09:29 AM
 
5,901 posts, read 2,179,413 times
Reputation: 7404
As a Californian I am happy to see this crackdown on unethical docs who cater to the anti-vaxxer crowd.
 
Old 09-11-2019, 09:34 AM
 
6,835 posts, read 4,726,011 times
Reputation: 13545
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
No I don’t think the state should intervene in the doctor patient relationship. I think Dr. Sears is being used as a scapegoat and poster boy for this new law. I don’t know enough about his case to know if he really is guilty of what the media is stating. I would have to read a lot more about it in order to have an informed opinion.
Even if ignoring the standard of care results in harm to a patient? You don’t think doctors who are guilty of gross negligence resulting in a patient’s death should be sanctioned or even lose their license to practice?

Dr. Sears is being used as an example of the type of waiver that will be called into question. He didn’t even read the patients file or check to see what vaccinations were given when. He just wrote a life time waiver based on nothing more than the mother’s opinion and his own personal bias. He’s not being used as a scapegoat. That would imply he’s innocent of the charges and even he agreed he was not.
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