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Old 09-11-2019, 12:34 PM
 
6,833 posts, read 4,722,245 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
Guidelines are not the same things as laws. No laws were broken when doctors wrote medical exemptions for their patients.

.05% is a tiny number no matter how you try to spin it. It is not significant.
Well, those doctors can now be scrutinized in compliance with the law and their waivers overturned if found to be without medically supportable reasons. Guess Dr. Sears will have to start actually reading patient files.

And we’ll have to agree to disagree on whether a 300% increase in medical waivers is significant or not. It was enough coupled with the questionable actions of some doctors to get the Bill passed.

 
Old 09-11-2019, 12:44 PM
 
9,943 posts, read 5,971,215 times
Reputation: 9885
Quote:
Originally Posted by UNC4Me View Post
Well, those doctors can now be scrutinized in compliance with the law and their waivers overturned if found to be without medically supportable reasons. Guess Dr. Sears will have to start actually reading patient files.

And we’ll have to agree to disagree on whether a 300% increase in medical waivers is significant or not. It was enough coupled with the questionable actions of some doctors to get the Bill passed.
Do you know how many medical waivers there were in California prior to the elimination of personal and religious exemptions and how many there were after. That would be helpful.
 
Old 09-11-2019, 12:59 PM
 
8,121 posts, read 2,409,692 times
Reputation: 9610
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
Do you know how many medical waivers there were in California prior to the elimination of personal and religious exemptions and how many there were after. That would be helpful.
I would guess some of these poster believe that vaccination rates are at about 10% of all school children because 90% have an "illegal" medical exemption.

Which of course, is not true. But I guarantee that's EXACTLY what they think.

They believe what they want to believe. The truth? Doesn't matter.
 
Old 09-11-2019, 01:06 PM
 
9,943 posts, read 5,971,215 times
Reputation: 9885
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtovenice View Post
I would guess some of these poster believe that vaccination rates are at about 10% of all school children because 90% have an "illegal" medical exemption.

Which of course, is not true. But I guarantee that's EXACTLY what they think.

They believe what they want to believe. The truth? Doesn't matter.
I read that after they eliminated the personal and religious exemption vaccination rates in schools rose to 95% which is above what is said to be needed for “herd immunity”. I guess they won’t be happy until they get 100%.


After getting 100% compliance they will continue to see outbreaks like the recent pertussis outbreak at a California school, Harvard Westlake where everyone who got it had been vaccinated and then they’ll wonder who they can blame next. Even 100% vaccinated communities can and still do have outbreaks.

https://ktla.com/2019/03/16/despite-...hooping-cough/

Quote:
But all of the sick students had been vaccinated against the disease, according to school officials. In fact, all 90 people who have recently come down with pertussis — the official name for whooping cough — in Los Angeles County this year had been immunized against it, according to county officials.
 
Old 09-11-2019, 01:14 PM
 
6,833 posts, read 4,722,245 times
Reputation: 13544
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtovenice View Post
I would guess some of these poster believe that vaccination rates are at about 10% of all school children because 90% have an "illegal" medical exemption.

Which of course, is not true. But I guarantee that's EXACTLY what they think.

They believe what they want to believe. The truth? Doesn't matter.
No one thinks that. No one has said that. But why waste the chance for misplaced outrage.

Are vaccination rates at SOME schools in California as low as 10%? Yes, they are. If you were a parent with a kid in that school, the rate at that school would matter far more to you than the overall rate of all California schools. Your child’s risk is based on their school’s vaccination rate not the 1000s of other schools in the CA system.
 
Old 09-11-2019, 01:28 PM
 
9,943 posts, read 5,971,215 times
Reputation: 9885
Quote:
Originally Posted by UNC4Me View Post
No one thinks that. No one has said that. But why waste the chance for misplaced outrage.

Are vaccination rates at SOME schools in California as low as 10%? Yes, they are. If you were a parent with a kid in that school, the rate at that school would matter far more to you than the overall rate of all California schools. Your child’s risk is based on their school’s vaccination rate not the 1000s of other schools in the CA system.
What schools in California have vaccination rates of 10%?
 
Old 09-11-2019, 01:39 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
23,725 posts, read 28,905,846 times
Reputation: 29545
I posted the same link a few pages back. You do not have to show it to me.

http://www.city-data.com/forum/56147611-post73.html

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo48 View Post
That is not going to keep them out of society or getting on planes or travelling state to state. Rockland County tried that and it was struck down in the courts. Plus, they will eventually grow up to be unvaccinated adults.

Unvaccinated Homes school children cannot go to Disney?
Rockland's ban on unvaccinated people in public was ultimately upheld.

Sure, they will go out in public. Fortunately, herd immunity will usually prevent them from catching a vaccine preventable disease.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo48 View Post
That Dr. Peter Pan in California is power hungry and on a mission. Give him an inch and he will want a mile. There is a poster on here who has said in the past that health insurance companies should raise the premiums of everyone who refuses a vaccination. Do you remember that? Presumably she means everyone, not only parents of young children. Oh, you have a choice. Nobody is going to force you to vaccinate, but there must be "consequences" according to her. Home school your children, today. Tomorrow? Increase your health insurance premiums (adults as well) if you do not comply. They cannot achieve their 95% Herd Immunity with only 25% of the population (children).

Power hungry.
Oh yes, I am all for doing what can be done to encourage adults to vaccinate themselves, too.

You need to give up on that 25% figure. It leaves out all the adults who are immune because they had the disease or they were vaccinated as children and are now adults. My sons were vaccinated as children and are now in their forties, contributing to herd immunity, for example.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
The recent measles outbreaks have been traceable to adults, not children. Yet school children are still the target of all legislation.
Unvaccinated adults. If they had been vaccinated as children they would not be unvaccinated adults.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKCN1VE0NP

https://www.sandiegocounty.gov/conte...c/Measles.html

https://www.theverge.com/2019/2/28/1...on-legislation

Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
How do you know the waivers were bogus? The practice of Medicine is both art and science. By declaring that only a small subset of adverse reactions can be considered you severely limit a doctor’s ability to practice medicine. It’s not all black and white nor should it be.

Medical waivers rose from .02% to .07%. I think that some of the parents who had previously utilized the other types of waivers due to them being easier to obtain even though their children had had serious adverse reactions in the past, or they had a family member with a serious adverse reaction then sought out medical waivers. At least one of the doctor’s interviewed who had been giving out the most waivers (still not a high number) said that she denied 7 out of 10 requests.

This legislation went after a half of a percent of school children in CA as well as doctors.
I have previously showed you that the numbers you are using are wrong. If you are going to quote stats please at least get them right. The figures are 0.2% and 0.7%, so you are off by a factor of ten. That is a 350% increase in medical waivers. There is no way on earth that the number of children in CA with valid conditions justifying a waiver has increased that much.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
Some people who have legit adverse reactions but you’ seem so sure that you know everything that you’re fine with that. Kids will be hurt by this law.
Anyone with "legit adverse reactions" will get an exemption. It may be for only that specific vaccine, not all vaccines. The difficulty is that the fact that a grandparent had lupus is not a "legit" reason to exempt a child from any vaccine, much less all vaccines.

"Legit" exemptions are based on scientific evidence supporting them. Family history is not one of them.

You would like for conditions that are not contraindications to vaccination be used as a basis for a vaccine exemption. That is not going to happen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
It wasn’t against the law for doctors to write medical exemptions for patients who, in their medical judgement, qualified for them. We’re talking about a new law enacted due to a .05% increase in medical exemptions.
The new law was enacted because of a 350% increase in waivers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffrow1 View Post
Yup... and when your child is over 18 and out of a public school setting he can smoke, vote, drive too fast and make any other bad choice he wishes. The likelihood that those poor choices will impact a young and vulnerable person are much less likely.
Some of the unvaccinated children are now opting to get vaccines once they are adults. Some teens are even asking if they can get vaccinated without parental consent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
You missed my point completely. Most adults are not up to date on vaccines according to today’s childhood schedule. You’re not up to date. I’m not up to date, neither are the vast majority of adults who go out in public. Yet a child who’s just one dose short or declines one single vaccine is banned from school or has to jump through hoops to find a doctor who will believe them and allow them a medical exemption for a vaccine that caused them or a close family member harm.
If there was indeed an adverse reaction to a vaccine the child will get a waiver. If it was another family member who had an adverse reaction, no.

Adults do not use the childhood schedule. They have a different schedule, and, yes, it is advisable to be up to date.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo48 View Post
They do not want to hear this. The vast majority of children ARE vaccinated. It is the ADULTS who aren't and threaten their 95% Herd Immunity but they are going to have a far much difficult time mandating adult vaccinations.

I had a run in with a couple of medical professionals on here when my grandson was born and I went into the NICU to see him, NO questions asked. Grandma, are you up to date on all your vaccines???? My last vaccination was in 1952 for DPT. They were INFURIATED that I was allowed into a NICU without a current Tdap or Flu shot showing my vaccination records. Maybe Shingles shot required as well? How about Peneumonia vaccination? BTW, all visitors except Parents and Grandparents were banned from going into the NICU. Is Mommy and Daddy with a baby in NICU fully up to date on vaccinations as well? I can tell you my daughters of their Newborn WEREN'T. Did we have to wear masks, put on gown, gloves, booties in NICU? No. Just no CELL PHONES allowed. lol

They cannot see the forest (ENTIRE population) for the trees (children). Cite me case law when was the last time an adult was thrown in jail under Jacobson v. Ma. for refusing to vaccinate THEMSELVES.

I do not trust them. Next will be home school children, and then on to adults if they proceed on this path. Bullies.

Edit. Take away Religious Exemptions to Vaccinates? All an Adult needs is flat out NO, I do not give my consent, don't touch me.
That NICU was negligent and for you to take advantage of it is unconscionable. I suspect other parents would be aghast to know that you do not give a hoot if you gave their newborns whooping cough or not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
Guidelines are not the same things as laws. No laws were broken when doctors wrote medical exemptions for their patients.

.05% is a tiny number no matter how you try to spin it. It is not significant.
It is 0.5%, not 0.05% and a 350% increase, which is indeed highly significant.

More up to date figure:

https://sd06.senate.ca.gov/news/2019...ore-quadrupled

"SACRAMENTO – The California Department of Public Health (CDPH) released their annual immunization assessment today, showing that the percentage of Kindergartners with permanent medical exemptions have risen once again from 0.2 percent prior to the passage of SB 277 in 2015, to 0.9 percent this year.

The increase is now up to 450%.
 
Old 09-11-2019, 01:53 PM
 
6,833 posts, read 4,722,245 times
Reputation: 13544
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
What schools in California have vaccination rates of 10%?
Sierra Waldorf School in Jamestown.

But, I was wrong. I said they had a vaccination rate of 10%, but it was only 7%. Sorry.

Last edited by UNC4Me; 09-11-2019 at 02:04 PM..
 
Old 09-11-2019, 02:17 PM
 
9,943 posts, read 5,971,215 times
Reputation: 9885
Quote:
Originally Posted by UNC4Me View Post
Sierra Waldorf School in Jamestown.

But, I was wrong. I said they had a vaccination rate of 10%, but it was only 7%. Sorry.
A private Waldorf School? Not surprised. They say that 7% are fully vaccinated. That doesn’t necessarily mean that the other 93% don’t have any vaccines. They could be just missing one and still be counted in that number.

What other schools?
 
Old 09-11-2019, 02:19 PM
Status: "Fall is Here!" (set 7 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,598 posts, read 103,766,976 times
Reputation: 33443
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
That’s weird because I’m sure we’ve discussed it before and you were actively involved in that discussion. Here’s one article about measles cases in CA in 2019. If you’re interested, feel free to use google to read more about it.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/measles...s-quarantined/
OK, MissTerri, I've been to the dentist, out to coffee with a friend, done the cleaning I have to do for my husband's stem-cell transplant recovery, and eaten lunch, and you still have not posted a link to any California outbreak.

The link you posted was not about an outbreak, although the headline says that. You'd do well to read the article as headlines can be misleading. It's about a quarantine due to an exposure. In fact, the article itself says "the highly-populous state has managed to keep the number of measles cases relatively under control due to high vaccination rates, with 38 cases so far this year." No doubt that is due to removing all exemptions except medical and belatedly (after the Disney outbreak) requiring MMR for college students in CA.

In point of fact, California has done a pretty good job with measles this year, as you can see from this report. Do note the date of this report is September 4, whereas the date of your link is April 26, which accounts for the discrepancy in numbers.
https://www.cdph.ca.gov/Programs/CID...n/measles.aspx
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