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Old 09-12-2019, 08:26 AM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
23,883 posts, read 29,029,280 times
Reputation: 29712

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Quote:
Originally Posted by newtovenice View Post
If you were given a drug that almost killed you, you'd have no problem giving it to your own child? Wouldn't mention it all to your doctor? Have zero concerns?

Really?
Sure, tell the doctor. However, your child is not your clone. You could have anaphylaxis from eating shrimp while your child could eat them every day with no problems.

Quote:
Originally Posted by newtovenice View Post
suzy knows best always.

She can diagnose and prescribe through the internet. That broken leg you have? Well she says it's improbable. You're lying about it being broken. Oh the X-ray shows the fracture? The X-ray is lying too.

Good gawd.
What you quoted has nothing to do with diagnosis. It was about statistics. Perhaps you should reread it.

 
Old 09-12-2019, 08:26 AM
 
10,092 posts, read 6,019,443 times
Reputation: 9974
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt View Post
The nurse could have reported these AEs to VAERS herself. She could do so anonymously. As far as inserts, most list adverse events WITHOUT REGARDS TO CAUSALITY.

Interestingly, I have given many, many vaccines in my career. The office where I worked gave about 100 doses of vaccine a day. The health departments where I worked also gave many, many vaccines. In my entire career, I saw exactly TWO serious adverse reactions; one an arthus reaction in an adult to a tetanus dose, and one a kid who was sneezing uncontrollably (until he was treated) after a chickenpox vaccine. He was treated in the office with Benadryl and was fine. And I have way more than her 13 years of vaccine experience. What an appeal to authority!

You weren’t working in the pediatric intensive care were you? Different experiences. I was not appealing to authority by sharing her perspective anymore then you are by sharing yours.
 
Old 09-12-2019, 08:29 AM
 
6,835 posts, read 4,740,185 times
Reputation: 13550
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
It’s extremely disingenuous to state that there are posters here who “support not vaccinating kids”. There are people who support choice and who also support medical decisions being made between doctor and patient. I have not seen anyone posting in support of “not vaccinating kids”.

In regards to adults, measles is far more dangerous to an adult then it is to a child and adults also interact in close quarters aka in workplaces so I’m not sure I understand your position. There are also far more cases of flu in any given year then measles so again, a confusing position. That vast majority of kids are vaccinated. The vast majority of adults are not vaccinated on that same schedule. Maybe if you allowed kids to use the same schedule as their parents were subject to you’d see much more fully vaccinated kids. But the reality is, the number and doses of vaccines has increased to a point where many question if it’s too much.
There are people who believe “between a doctor and patient” means any parent can claim general concern for any reason and should be given a waiver no questions asked. That’s why some people support Dr. Sears. He didn’t see the kid, didn’t review his medical records and was unaware of what vaccines the kid even had and still provided a medical waiver because the parent just asked.

The vast majority of adults were vaccinated as kids. Does immunity sometimes wane? Yes. That’s why there are adult guidelines for boosters. Doctors should encourage patients to get them when indicated. It’s not like a vaccinated child turns 18 and all their immunity gained by childhood vaccination goes Poof. To insinuate we don’t need to worry about children being vaccinated because some adults are not fully vaccinated makes no sense. It’s like saying “Well if Mom doesn’t wear a seatbelt and she hasn’t died in a wreck then it’s perfectly safe for her kids not to”.

And everyone supports choice. Not one person on this thread has said parents should stand aside while a nurse forcibly vaccinates their kid against their express wishes. No one believes that’s a line we should ever cross.
 
Old 09-12-2019, 08:31 AM
 
10,092 posts, read 6,019,443 times
Reputation: 9974
Quote:
Originally Posted by UNC4Me View Post
There are people who believe “between a doctor and patient” means any parent can claim general concern for any reason and should be given a waiver no questions asked. That’s why some people support Dr. Sears. He didn’t see the kid, didn’t review his medical records and was unaware of what vaccines the kid even had and still provided a medical waiver because the parent just asked.

The vast majority of adults were vaccinated as kids. Does immunity sometimes wane? Yes. That’s why there are adult guidelines for boosters. Doctors should encourage patients to get them when indicated. It’s not like a vaccinated child turns 18 and all their immunity gained by childhood vaccination goes Poof. To insinuate we don’t need to worry about children being vaccinated because some adults are not fully vaccinated makes no sense. It’s like saying “Well if Mom doesn’t wear a seatbelt, then it’s perfectly safe for her kids not to”.

And everyone supports choice. Not one person on this thread has said parents should stand aside while a nurse forcibly vaccinated their kid against their express wishes. No one believes that’s a line we should ever cross.
Would you support children of today being vaccinated on the same schedule that there parents were?

You seem to support coercion which is not free choice.
 
Old 09-12-2019, 08:33 AM
Status: "Fall is Here!" (set 21 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,774 posts, read 103,967,405 times
Reputation: 33535
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
You weren’t working in the pediatric intensive care were you? Different experiences. I was not appealing to authority by sharing her perspective anymore then you are by sharing yours.
No, I worked where the real action is, community pediatrics! Now mind you, I respect ICU nurses greatly. I wouldn't want to do it.

However, LAY people tend to equate ICU with greater intelligence, just like people think EMTs are a higher level than nurses. To not put too fine a point on it, I don't believe this person. She offers no medical evidence that these problems she saw were caused by vaccines. It may come as some surprise to you, but doctor's offices and health departments do follow up on their patients; if anyone was admitted to the ICU, we'd know about it. Also, as I said, she could have reported these events to VAERS herself, but she didn't.
 
Old 09-12-2019, 08:47 AM
 
8,354 posts, read 2,464,364 times
Reputation: 9724
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt View Post
The nurse could have reported these AEs to VAERS herself. She could do so anonymously. As far as inserts, most list adverse events WITHOUT REGARDS TO CAUSALITY.

Interestingly, I have given many, many vaccines in my career. The office where I worked gave about 100 doses of vaccine a day. The health departments where I worked also gave many, many vaccines. In my entire career, I saw exactly TWO serious adverse reactions; one an arthus reaction in an adult to a tetanus dose, and one a kid who was sneezing uncontrollably (until he was treated) after a chickenpox vaccine. He was treated in the office with Benadryl and was fine. And I have way more than her 13 years of vaccine experience. What an appeal to authority!
That's because vaccines don't have adverse reactions. It was something else that caused it. Always. Especially if it happens more than 15 minutes after you leave the dr office. It's never the vaccine then. Because well you left the office. So it's not the vaccines fault.

If you dismiss it before you examine it, it never happened. Easy peasy way to ensure vaccine data shows they are 100% "safe."
 
Old 09-12-2019, 08:49 AM
 
8,354 posts, read 2,464,364 times
Reputation: 9724
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
Sure, tell the doctor. However, your child is not your clone. You could have anaphylaxis from eating shrimp while your child could eat them every day with no problems.



What you quoted has nothing to do with diagnosis. It was about statistics. Perhaps you should reread it.
So you advise anyone who has a potentially deadly reaction to a drug to give that drug to their young child?
 
Old 09-12-2019, 08:50 AM
 
6,835 posts, read 4,740,185 times
Reputation: 13550
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
Would you support children of today being vaccinated on the same schedule that there parents were?

You seem to support coercion which is not free choice.
No, because children are not adults. The vast majority of HIB infections are in those under 5. That’s why the vaccine is given early starting at 2 months.

The free choice is to vaccinate or not. Do you have that choice? Yes you do.

All laws are coercive. They either prevent you from doing something if you CHOOSE not to do something else (can’t travel overseas if you choose not to get a passport) or they punish you for something you CHOOSE to do (choose to murder someone? Off to jail you go). Either way it all begins when you have the free will to CHOOSE.
 
Old 09-12-2019, 08:59 AM
 
Location: San Diego, CA
1,523 posts, read 1,459,409 times
Reputation: 1054
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
It’s extremely disingenuous to state that there are posters here who “support not vaccinating kids”. There are people who support choice and who also support medical decisions being made between doctor and patient. I have not seen anyone posting in support of “not vaccinating kids”.

In regards to adults, measles is far more dangerous to an adult then it is to a child and adults also interact in close quarters aka in workplaces so I’m not sure I understand your position. There are also far more cases of flu in any given year then measles so again, a confusing position. That vast majority of kids are vaccinated. The vast majority of adults are not vaccinated on that same schedule. Maybe if you allowed kids to use the same schedule as their parents were subject to you’d see much more fully vaccinated kids. But the reality is, the number and doses of vaccines has increased to a point where many question if it’s too much.
Of course not, you all support OTHER people vaccinating their kids. You know that vaccines work and you want everyone else to assume rare risk of a serious complication. If everyone else provides the herd immunity you are perfectly willing to roll with it. Why should you take the risk if the rest of society assumes it.
 
Old 09-12-2019, 09:05 AM
 
6,835 posts, read 4,740,185 times
Reputation: 13550
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffrow1 View Post
Of course not, you all support OTHER people vaccinating their kids. You know that vaccines work and you want everyone else to assume rare risk of a serious complication. If everyone else provides the herd immunity you are perfectly willing to roll with it. Why should you take the risk if the rest of society assumes it.
I think her stance is more she wants a Chinese Menu for vaccinations with parents having the ability to pick and choose which vaccines their kids get and when instead of having to follow the CDC schedule.

A lot of that attitude arose when HPV was added. Lots of pearl clutching in some circles where they fear vaccination against a sexually transmitted disease would encourage their kids to have (gasp) S E X. (Not pointing at anyone in this thread, but there are people with this viewpoint)

And yes, those who do refuse vaccination for non medical reasons are hiding in the herd provided by others. They fail to realize there will be a tipping point if more and more refuse (see Measles outbreaks worldwide for a glimpse of that rosy future).

Last edited by UNC4Me; 09-12-2019 at 09:14 AM..
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