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Old 09-10-2019, 03:29 PM
 
6,775 posts, read 3,740,040 times
Reputation: 7612

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt View Post
Slippery Slope is a logical fallacy.
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/slippery-slope
"The problem with this reasoning is that it avoids engaging with the issue at hand, and instead shifts attention to extreme hypotheticals. Because no proof is presented to show that such extreme hypotheticals will in fact occur, this fallacy has the form of an appeal to emotion fallacy by leveraging fear. In effect the argument at hand is unfairly tainted by unsubstantiated conjecture."

There is no legislation to force anyone to be vaccinated. It is a bit disingenuous to include the prenatal vaccines, as they are given to the mother. Some of her antibodies to pass through the placenta to the baby, but that is called "passive immunity" and it wears off quickly. The idea is to give the baby a head start in immunity until s/he can be vaccinated.
Ah, but you see a pregnant woman is still an adult. You cannot vaccinate her unborn baby unless you vaccinate her the adult. She can refuse to be vaccinated. My daughter refused to be vaccinated while pregnant, twice. It was not her OB or Midwife pushing vaccination, it was her GP. Who knows more about pregnancy? An OB or a GP?

You want OB's to dismiss their pregnant patients who refuse vaccinations? Maybe when they give birth, their Newborns should be taken away from them too?

How far do you want to take your vaccinations?

Edit: Daughter refused Hep. B for her Newborns, but did vaccinate when they were older. She herself, and husband, refused to be vaccinated themselves for that. They are Teachers. I refused myself as well. Husband did also in his 60's in the hospital after his heart attack. Daughter's sons vaccinations aren't going to work because their family members refused that vaccination????? Your old vaccinated Herd Immunity Mindset.

Last edited by Jo48; 09-10-2019 at 03:45 PM..

 
Old 09-10-2019, 04:01 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
23,725 posts, read 28,905,846 times
Reputation: 29545
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
The slippery slope has already happened in California. They eliminated philosophical and religious vaccinations (yet still had cases of measles during the last outbreak) and shortly there after, passed this bill which greatly limits medical exemptions. Iím sure after they continue to have outbreaks they will find another group to go after and blame. It will either be homeschoolers or adults.
High vaccination rates do not prevent cases, they limit the size of outbreaks. There will always be cases imported from abroad unless we require proof of immunity to measles for all travelers entering the US from abroad.

Like this outbreak, that was started by a 15 year old unvaccinated boy who caught measles in England.

https://www.theverge.com/2019/2/28/1...on-legislation

If you bring measles into your community because you were unvaccinated, should you not be ready to accept the "blame"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo48 View Post
Yes, I know my generation is immune to these diseases because we had them as children. Unvaccinated NATURAL Immunity. Your probably would like we PROVE it by a titer, or get vaccinated anyway? Does not apply to Diphtheria, Tetanus, or Pertussis (bad waning vaccinated immunity), which ONCE is not good enough. Forget Flu, let alone Hep. A, Hep. B, Pneumonia, or HPV. So tell me those 5 vaccines in childhood is enough? There are current outbreaks of Hep. A in some states? Why when all children are required to get that?

When I worked in mental health facilities and public schools, I signed the OSHA Refusal Consent form for Hep. B vaccination. Want to take that away as well? NEWBORNS get that one and children can be refused school admission for being unvaccinated for that. You better pass some law for adult refusal for that as well.

As I said before, you people will not stop with public/private school vaccination. Next will be home school children, and then on to adults. Less than half the adult population gets yearly flu vaccinations. Better get started on legislation mandating THAT.
No, I would not "probably would like we PROVE it by a titer, or get vaccinated anyway." Why do you keep saying things like that when you know it is not true? The only time I think proof of immunity should be required is for travel to the US, citizens and foreigners alike.

You are free to refuse all vaccines. No one has ever forcibly vaccinated you and no one will in the future. What your family chooses to do is up to them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
Sorry you had to use a propaganda site to explain this to you. Some of those vaccines that you and that site seem to list as one are actually combined vaccines. DTAP For example, is not just one vaccine, itís three in one. MMR is also three in one. Counting them as what they are is not a scare tactic, itís the reality. The point is, kids today get WAY more vaccines then most adults. Just compare your childhood schedule side by side with the childhood schedule of today. If you want to ensure that all of these small children are up to date then put your money where your mouth is and stop being a hypocrite and get on their schedule yourself.
Some of the childhood vaccines are not indicated for adults, so your proposal falls flat.

You still have not answered my question: Why is being able to protect children from more diseases a Bad Thing? Why the obsession with the number of doses?
 
Old 09-10-2019, 05:05 PM
 
8,121 posts, read 2,409,692 times
Reputation: 9610
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
Family history is not an indication for an exemption because it does not increase risk for a child.

The risk of any severe complication from a vaccine is about one in a million, so your death of a sibling scenario is going to be extremely rare.

A history of seizures is not an indication to forgo vaccination. Febrile seizures can happen after vaccination, but those are benign. If a child has a febrile seizure after a vaccine he could have febrile seizures from the disease the vaccine prevents. Epilepsy is not a contraindication to vaccination.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC320893/

"CONCLUSIONS: There are significantly elevated risks of febrile seizures on the day of receipt of DTP vaccine and 8 to 14 days after the receipt of MMR vaccine, but these risks do not appear to be associated with any long-term, adverse consequences."

Vaccine Safety ● Do Vaccines Cause Seizures?

I hardly think pediatric oncologists are going to have a hard time with this legislation. They will just have to document the reason for each child's exemption. I would think they would welcome it, because it protects their patients who have clear-cut medical reasons not to be vaccinated.

MS already reviews all medical exemption requests.

https://msdh.ms.gov/msdhsite/_static/14,0,71,688.html

The fact is that some CA physicians are selling medical exemptions to parents who do not want to vaccinate, primarily because of fear of autism. Since these families tend to cluster in the same neighborhoods, large numbers of fake medical exemptions can lower the vaccination rate below 95% in a particular school. The overall state average does not matter.

https://www.latimes.com/local/califo...701-story.html

"About 1,500 schools in California had kindergarten vaccination rates below 95%."

"At 117 schools, 10% or more of the kindergartners were not immunized because their doctors had excused them from vaccines. At 17 schools, 30% or more of the kindergarten class had medical exemptions on file."

Here are the medical contraindications for each childhood vaccine.

https://www.immunize.org/catg.d/p3072a.pdf


By the way, an increase in medical exemptions from 0.2% (not 0.02%) to 0.7% (not 0.07%) is a 0.7 divided by 0.2 = 3.5 = 350% increase. Do you really think the number of children with valid medical exemptions to vaccines has increased 350% in the last few years in CA? Why change the statistical figures to make the number of exemptions seem smaller than they are? The 0.2% and 0.7% figures are from corpgypsy's L.A. Times link above.
Right, you believe that they are all safe all the time. Won't even CONSIDER that a death in the family indicates a high risk and that the parent should be allowed by law to OPT OUT.

Saying it's rare? Makes no difference to the ones who die.
 
Old 09-10-2019, 05:08 PM
 
8,121 posts, read 2,409,692 times
Reputation: 9610
Isn't it amazing that if you tell a doctor you are allergic to a drug, he won't force you to take it?

But tell him you almost died getting a vaccine and so you do not want your child to get it and you get REPORTED TO THE GOVERNMENT.
 
Old 09-10-2019, 05:11 PM
 
8,121 posts, read 2,409,692 times
Reputation: 9610
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
High vaccination rates do not prevent cases, they limit the size of outbreaks. There will always be cases imported from abroad unless we require proof of immunity to measles for all travelers entering the US from abroad.

Like this outbreak, that was started by a 15 year old unvaccinated boy who caught measles in England.

https://www.theverge.com/2019/2/28/1...on-legislation

If you bring measles into your community because you were unvaccinated, should you not be ready to accept the "blame"?



No, I would not "probably would like we PROVE it by a titer, or get vaccinated anyway." Why do you keep saying things like that when you know it is not true? The only time I think proof of immunity should be required is for travel to the US, citizens and foreigners alike.

You are free to refuse all vaccines. No one has ever forcibly vaccinated you and no one will in the future. What your family chooses to do is up to them.



Some of the childhood vaccines are not indicated for adults, so your proposal falls flat.

You still have not answered my question: Why is being able to protect children from more diseases a Bad Thing? Why the obsession with the number of doses?
Why the obsession with forcing people to do things that they do not want to do?
 
Old 09-10-2019, 05:17 PM
 
8,121 posts, read 2,409,692 times
Reputation: 9610
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
The slippery slope has already happened in California. They eliminated philosophical and religious vaccinations (yet still had cases of measles during the last outbreak) and shortly there after, passed this bill which greatly limits medical exemptions. Iím sure after they continue to have outbreaks they will find another group to go after and blame. It will either be homeschoolers or adults.
It'll be adults. There are too few homeschoolers to make any difference.
 
Old 09-10-2019, 05:25 PM
 
Location: San Diego, CA
1,498 posts, read 1,448,050 times
Reputation: 1034
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtovenice View Post
It'll be adults. There are too few homeschoolers to make any difference.
Don't be too sure..... there is a pretty large homeschool industry in CA.
 
Old 09-10-2019, 05:30 PM
 
9,943 posts, read 5,971,215 times
Reputation: 9885
Quote:
Originally Posted by UNC4Me View Post
In CA, one San Diego doctor is responsible for 1/3 of all medical waivers in the entire state. This law was needed for oversight of fraudulent waivers like those passed out like lollipops by 1 doctor. And she is by no means the only doctor whose waivers are questionable.

Oddly I just read an article about this doctor. She was responsible for 1/3 of all ME in San Diego area. It translated to 25 per year. She also said that she denied 7 out of 10 people who asked for them. Hardly passing them out like lollipops.
 
Old 09-10-2019, 05:37 PM
Status: "Fall is Here!" (set 7 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,598 posts, read 103,766,976 times
Reputation: 33443
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo48 View Post
Ah, but you see a pregnant woman is still an adult. You cannot vaccinate her unborn baby unless you vaccinate her the adult. She can refuse to be vaccinated. My daughter refused to be vaccinated while pregnant, twice. It was not her OB or Midwife pushing vaccination, it was her GP. Who knows more about pregnancy? An OB or a GP?

You want OB's to dismiss their pregnant patients who refuse vaccinations? Maybe when they give birth, their Newborns should be taken away from them too?

How far do you want to take your vaccinations?

Edit: Daughter refused Hep. B for her Newborns, but did vaccinate when they were older. She herself, and husband, refused to be vaccinated themselves for that. They are Teachers. I refused myself as well. Husband did also in his 60's in the hospital after his heart attack. Daughter's sons vaccinations aren't going to work because their family members refused that vaccination????? Your old vaccinated Herd Immunity Mindset.
Well, that depends. Some GPs (which there really aren't any more in the US; the term is "Family Practice Physician") do a lot of OB. I'm surprised the OB didn't recommend those two vaccines, because the ACOG (American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists) recommends them.

Why are you asking me this? I have never, in 12, almost 13 years of being on CD, suggested such a thing.

Ditto. You're getting OTT.

Why do you call them "my" vaccinations? I didn't invent any. I don't, despite many accusations to the contrary, work for a drug company and never have.

I am not particularly interested in what your family did/does WRT vaccines.
 
Old 09-10-2019, 05:52 PM
 
8,121 posts, read 2,409,692 times
Reputation: 9610
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffrow1 View Post
Don't be too sure..... there is a pretty large homeschool industry in CA.
What is a homeschool industry?

Looks there are about 198,000 homeschoolers in California. Total population is 38,000,000.
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