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Old 09-10-2019, 08:13 AM
 
9,943 posts, read 5,971,215 times
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California already had the strictest laws in the country in regards to vaccines for school aged children. Medical Exemptions were the only type of exemption allowed, something that kids could only get after an adverse reaction to a vaccine and something that they could only get from their doctor. The state decided that doctors were giving these medical exemptions too freely so changed the law to limit the number of medical exemptions a doctor can give out in a year to four. If a doctor gives out five they will be investigated by the State. This erodes the doctor patient relationship as well as makes doctors fear giving out valid exemptions due to the threat of being investigated by the State. No matter how you feel about vaccines, some people really should not take them due to valid medical reasons and this legislation stands to hurt this group of kids with this over reaching legislation.

https://www.sfchronicle.com/politics...s-14426441.php

 
Old 09-10-2019, 08:21 AM
 
614 posts, read 131,633 times
Reputation: 626
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
California already had the strictest laws in the country in regards to vaccines for school aged children. Medical Exemptions were the only type of exemption allowed, something that kids could only get after an adverse reaction to a vaccine and something that they could only get from their doctor. The state decided that doctors were giving these medical exemptions too freely so changed the law to limit the number of medical exemptions a doctor can give out in a year to four. If a doctor gives out five they will be investigated by the State. This erodes the doctor patient relationship as well as makes doctors fear giving out valid exemptions due to the threat of being investigated by the State. No matter how you feel about vaccines, some people really should not take them due to valid medical reasons and this legislation stands to hurt this group of kids with this over reaching legislation.

https://www.sfchronicle.com/politics...s-14426441.php
Doctors get investigated by the state all the time. They have to be licensed to practice. If they are giving out bogus exemptions they should get into trouble.
 
Old 09-10-2019, 08:49 AM
 
2,595 posts, read 709,648 times
Reputation: 2701
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
California already had the strictest laws in the country in regards to vaccines for school aged children. Medical Exemptions were the only type of exemption allowed, something that kids could only get after an adverse reaction to a vaccine and something that they could only get from their doctor. The state decided that doctors were giving these medical exemptions too freely so changed the law to limit the number of medical exemptions a doctor can give out in a year to four. If a doctor gives out five they will be investigated by the State. This erodes the doctor patient relationship as well as makes doctors fear giving out valid exemptions due to the threat of being investigated by the State. No matter how you feel about vaccines, some people really should not take them due to valid medical reasons and this legislation stands to hurt this group of kids with this over reaching legislation.

https://www.sfchronicle.com/politics...s-14426441.php
Having read your article I disagree with your conclusion. This law actually will protect all children and especially benefit the very vulnerable few who have a valid medical contraindication to vaccination. It allows the Department of Public Health to review medical exemptions at schools where fewer than 95% of students are vaccinated.

Children who genuinely need a medical exemption and are not vaccinated can’t go to a school if their school is not safe due to the percentages of non-vaccinated students who pose a dangerous risk to everyone. So the converse of your conclusion is the truth.

Per lawmakers and public health officials "That means that we need to be sure that the other kids who can get vaccinated are vaccinated." The statistics provided in your article reveal that some medical providers were indeed handing out medical exemptions that were fraudulent: After the 2015 law by Sen. Richard Pan, D-Sacramento, which repealed parents’ right to keep their children from being vaccinated if it violated their personal or religious beliefs, the number of medical exemptions quadrupled.

The few children who legitimately have a risk to vaccines and therefore are not vaccinated will be made safer by attending a school that has a vaccinated population. They will not be kept from school. And those parents who choose to put their children at risk from preventable diseases can continue to do so as they find alternative educational sources that will not endanger the public health.

Governor Newsom's comments make sense: "This legislation provides new tools to better protect public health, and does so in a way that ensures parents, doctors, public health officials and school administrators all know the rules of the road moving forward.”

Last edited by corpgypsy; 09-10-2019 at 09:04 AM..
 
Old 09-10-2019, 09:22 AM
 
10,494 posts, read 4,851,052 times
Reputation: 5729
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
California already had the strictest laws in the country in regards to vaccines for school aged children. Medical Exemptions were the only type of exemption allowed, something that kids could only get after an adverse reaction to a vaccine and something that they could only get from their doctor. The state decided that doctors were giving these medical exemptions too freely so changed the law to limit the number of medical exemptions a doctor can give out in a year to four. If a doctor gives out five they will be investigated by the State. This erodes the doctor patient relationship as well as makes doctors fear giving out valid exemptions due to the threat of being investigated by the State. No matter how you feel about vaccines, some people really should not take them due to valid medical reasons and this legislation stands to hurt this group of kids with this over reaching legislation.

https://www.sfchronicle.com/politics...s-14426441.php
This will penalize specialists who tend to have the most patients that are adversely affected by vaccines.
 
Old 09-10-2019, 09:23 AM
 
9,943 posts, read 5,971,215 times
Reputation: 9885
Quote:
Originally Posted by mascoma View Post
Doctors get investigated by the state all the time. They have to be licensed to practice. If they are giving out bogus exemptions they should get into trouble.
They are being investigated if they give out five exemptions in one year. Not being investigated for giving out bogus exemptions. Just for giving out more then four. This will surely make many doctors stop giving out exemptions period over fear of being investigated, even if the exemption was valid. Some doctors have already stated this. And really, who’s in a better position to judge what is a valid exemption or not? One’s doctor or the state legislators?
 
Old 09-10-2019, 09:24 AM
 
9,943 posts, read 5,971,215 times
Reputation: 9885
Quote:
Originally Posted by Floorist View Post
This will penalize specialists who tend to have the most patients that are adversely affected by vaccines.
Definitely. I’ll try to find the article but there was an oncologist who was quoted as stating this exact thing.
 
Old 09-10-2019, 09:30 AM
 
614 posts, read 131,633 times
Reputation: 626
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
They are being investigated if they give out five exemptions in one year. Not being investigated for giving out bogus exemptions. Just for giving out more then four. This will surely make many doctors stop giving out exemptions period over fear of being investigated, even if the exemption was valid. Some doctors have already stated this. And really, who’s in a better position to judge what is a valid exemption or not? One’s doctor or the state legislators?
They will be investigated but not get into trouble unless the exemptions are bogus. How else is the state going to know if they are giving out bogus exemptions? If you have a better idea let me know.
 
Old 09-10-2019, 09:39 AM
 
9,943 posts, read 5,971,215 times
Reputation: 9885
Quote:
Originally Posted by corpgypsy View Post
Having read your article I disagree with your conclusion. This law actually will protect all children and especially benefit the very vulnerable few who have a valid medical contraindication to vaccination. It allows the Department of Public Health to review medical exemptions at schools where fewer than 95% of students are vaccinated.

Children who genuinely need a medical exemption and are not vaccinated can’t go to a school if their school is not safe due to the percentages of non-vaccinated students who pose a dangerous risk to everyone. So the converse of your conclusion is the truth.

Per lawmakers and public health officials "That means that we need to be sure that the other kids who can get vaccinated are vaccinated." The statistics provided in your article reveal that some medical providers were indeed handing out medical exemptions that were fraudulent: After the 2015 law by Sen. Richard Pan, D-Sacramento, which repealed parents’ right to keep their children from being vaccinated if it violated their personal or religious beliefs, the number of medical exemptions quadrupled.

The few children who legitimately have a risk to vaccines and therefore are not vaccinated will be made safer by attending a school that has a vaccinated population. They will not be kept from school. And those parents who choose to put their children at risk from preventable diseases can continue to do so as they find alternative educational sources that will not endanger the public health.

Governor Newsom's comments make sense: "This legislation provides new tools to better protect public health, and does so in a way that ensures parents, doctors, public health officials and school administrators all know the rules of the road moving forward.”

Any mainstream articles on the issue will be one sided. It’s just the way it is.

The law will not protect those who have valid reason for getting medical exemptions who will no longer be allowed to do so due to interference in the doctor patient relationship. Children who have had seizures post vaccine, for example will not be allowed exemptions. Parents who had a child die post vaccination will not be allowed exemptions for subsequent children. Exemptions will be limited to a very narrow list and not a doctor’s discretion. Keep in mind that medicine is both art and science, we are not all perfect clones of one another and what does not cause harm to most can cause harm to a minority.

Deciding that individual healthcare decisions should be made by the state and not by one’s doctor is very concerning no matter where you stand.
 
Old 09-10-2019, 09:40 AM
 
9,943 posts, read 5,971,215 times
Reputation: 9885
Quote:
Originally Posted by mascoma View Post
They will be investigated but not get into trouble unless the exemptions are bogus. How else is the state going to know if they are giving out bogus exemptions? If you have a better idea let me know.
But how do they decided that a medical exemption is bogus? And how would they know better then a patient’s own doctor? Let’s say you’re prescribed a medication for high blood pressure. You have a seizure after taking it. Your doctor says that you should not be taking it anymore. The state intervenes and says that the doctor is wrong and that you need to take it, in order to keep health care costs down. What then?

Kids who have had seizures post vaccination won’t be exempted so the example is valid.

Think about what will happen when outbreaks continue in California. Will adults embrace legislation that says, “get your flu shot or lose the privilege of having a job or getting one’s drivers license”?

Last edited by MissTerri; 09-10-2019 at 09:48 AM..
 
Old 09-10-2019, 09:53 AM
 
2,595 posts, read 709,648 times
Reputation: 2701
Quote:
Originally Posted by mascoma View Post
They will be investigated but not get into trouble unless the exemptions are bogus. How else is the state going to know if they are giving out bogus exemptions? If you have a better idea let me know.


Yep.

Before this recent legislation, health authorities in California had more power to insist that a dog be vaccinated against rabies than to ensure that a child enrolled in school is vaccinated against measles.

Below is a 2018 LA Times article highlighting the frustrations and concerns of health officials related to the proliferation of fraudulent medical exemptions, and by whom, when California did away with the personal and religious exemptions. A multi year study was conducted and the findings were published in the journal Pediatrics in late 2018.

https://www.latimes.com/science/scie...029-story.html
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