U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 09-10-2019, 11:37 AM
 
Location: San Jose
2,280 posts, read 694,430 times
Reputation: 2364

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilot1 View Post
^^^^^^This. Thank LBJ, and McNamara as well as others trying to micro manage a war from the Oval Office.
Its because many of the generals at the time could not be trusted to act accordingly. If you read some of the accounts of proposed actions by some of these generals, you can completely understand why Eisenhower, Kennedy and LBJ chose to muzzle these guys.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 09-10-2019, 11:41 AM
Status: "At least I’m not Matt Shea" (set 28 days ago)
 
Location: Near Manito
19,595 posts, read 21,088,767 times
Reputation: 14017
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mosep View Post
Their were certainly no victory parades awaiting returning American soldiers but much of the "ridicule" is most likely an urban legend. Newspapers of the era almost never mention the spitting myth which has been widely disseminated by right wing sources.
There were, however, “peace protestors” in the streets of America chanting “Ho Ho Ho Chi Minh, NLF is gonna win!” and carrying Vietcong flags. These people were openly supporting the communists trying to kill me and my fellow GIs.

No, I was never spat upon. But I witnessed crowds of fellow Americans actively cheering for my death. And these people I can never forgive.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-10-2019, 11:48 AM
 
1,922 posts, read 1,140,100 times
Reputation: 1688
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stratto22 View Post
We only have the glorification of the military to keep people enrolling in the military.
It's kinda sad

...my advice...stop watching hollywood's war movies...there is no glory in war...and anyone that thinks there is, has never been in combat...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-10-2019, 12:26 PM
 
16,985 posts, read 4,464,422 times
Reputation: 11786
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilot1 View Post
^^^^^^This. Thank LBJ, and McNamara as well as others trying to micro manage a war from the Oval Office.
You forgot Nixon. Coincidence?

Nixon promised to get us out immediately - which was what he ran on!

Here is Nixon himself in 1968 - what a liar!
"I pledge to you"

Not only didn't the war end after his election, but he indiscriminately bombed NV and even considered nukes. Then he resigned as a crook and we lost in 1974/1975.

At least get your history right. Vietnam actually started under IKE and JFK and LBJ inherited it. You are correct about McNamara, who not only destroyed Ford Motor with his "bean counting", but then destroyed the best of our youth and much of our resources and treasure.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sx3rt9IYtUM
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-10-2019, 12:31 PM
 
Location: Manchester NH
10,165 posts, read 2,850,445 times
Reputation: 2703
Quote:
Originally Posted by justus978 View Post
...my advice...stop watching hollywood's war movies...there is no glory in war...and anyone that thinks there is, has never been in combat...
I remember how even non war movies glorified the military post 9/11.

Look at Transformers as an example.

Interestingly today the army is having trouble finding recruits since young 18 teen year olds are more out of shape than ever.

Corporate capitalism which values meat production and processed foods is now crippling the military that defends its access to trade.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-10-2019, 12:33 PM
 
16,985 posts, read 4,464,422 times
Reputation: 11786
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeledaf View Post
There were, however, “peace protestors” in the streets of America chanting “Ho Ho Ho Chi Minh, NLF is gonna win!” and carrying Vietcong flags. These people were openly supporting the communists trying to kill me and my fellow GIs.

No, I was never spat upon. But I witnessed crowds of fellow Americans actively cheering for my death. And these people I can never forgive.
This becomes very complicated because what they were REALLY trying to do was save you and your fellow soldiers AND, of course, the very real human beings our Industrial War Machine was killing by the millions.

I mean - who is it that you will never forgive? They are likely old now...many would have even passed away.

Peace protestors were asking Nixon to DO WHAT HE PROMISED. Please see the 1968 commercial above.

I attended two of the biggest marches on DC but there was never a peep I saw about "Baby killers" and such. In fact, Vets were often the people talking on stage.

In the historical context, the protestors were right. Bring the troops home. Don't sacrifice thousands of Americans for a political situation you can call a "win".

The entire debacle is being repeated in some sense now...except our body count is lower (but theirs isn't)......

It's really a sickness of mankind. I can understand War with a cause, a beginning and an end. I cannot understand it when it is a constant state of affairs eating up many trillions of our treasure and exposing our citizens to stuff that....for little or no return.

That would seem logical but perhaps it is not?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-10-2019, 12:39 PM
 
7,534 posts, read 3,862,086 times
Reputation: 3949
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrowGirl View Post
I think there is also a certain amount of collective guilt regarding how the American soldiers were treated once they got back home. I realize this is a somewhat separate issue about whether the war itself was moral or immoral, but some at the time were unable to separate how they felt about the war and how they treated the soldiers and a lot of soldiers - many of whom were drafted rather than volunteered - were ridiculed and worse when they got home. I expect some of that may be seeping into the feelings for the war itself, especially so many years later.
There`s no visual evidence of any kind that anyone was spit on or whatever. It`s a classic case of repeating the same lie over and over and it becomes a "fact". No police reports of breaking up a scuffle, no incidents on film, etc. Nothing!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-10-2019, 12:45 PM
 
7,534 posts, read 3,862,086 times
Reputation: 3949
Quote:
Originally Posted by KenFresno View Post
We didn't fight the Vietnam War with our hands tied behind our back because of PCness. We limited ourselves in engagements as to not entice China into joining the war, maybe even the Soviet Union as well. Can you imagine how bad it would have been for us if we got locked into a massive land war in Southeast Asia against Vietnam, China and possibly the Soviet Union? The Vietnam War memorial would have needed to be a mile long.
Another reason it was a limited war was because what would victory look like? Japan and Germany were threats and they signed surrender documents. How could a non threatening nation surrender? What is it that we could insist they sign?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-10-2019, 12:50 PM
 
989 posts, read 299,031 times
Reputation: 455
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigiri View Post
You forgot Nixon. Coincidence?

Nixon promised to get us out immediately - which was what he ran on!

Here is Nixon himself in 1968 - what a liar!
"I pledge to you"

Not only didn't the war end after his election, but he indiscriminately bombed NV and even considered nukes. Then he resigned as a crook and we lost in 1974/1975.

At least get your history right. Vietnam actually started under IKE and JFK and LBJ inherited it. You are correct about McNamara, who not only destroyed Ford Motor with his "bean counting", but then destroyed the best of our youth and much of our resources and treasure.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sx3rt9IYtUM

Johnson 1968 peace proposal was sabotaged with Nixon by madame Chang-kai-check illegally (of course)


Nixon told the negotiators to hold off as he would give a better deal and this is 1968...the final peace was more or less the same 1968 proposal...conservatives notorious subvert our laws fro Nixon here to Oliver north and beyond
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-10-2019, 12:54 PM
 
1,702 posts, read 450,634 times
Reputation: 2152
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
Actually about 47,000, not 58,000. 11,000 are not combat-related deaths. It breaks down like this:

ACCIDENT 9,107
DECLARED DEAD 1,201
DIED OF WOUNDS 5,299
HOMICIDE 236
ILLNESS 938
KILLED IN ACTION 40,934
PRESUMED DEAD (BODY REMAINS RECOVERED) 32
PRESUMED DEAD (BODY REMAINS NOT RECOVERED) 91
SELF-INFLICTED 382
Total 58,220
58220. Dead is dead. Not sure what your point is.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top