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Old 09-10-2019, 09:39 PM
 
Location: Florida
63,916 posts, read 34,916,641 times
Reputation: 10693

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
I also know in a lot of ways the Vietnam war was good for American geopolitical power as we have Vietnam as an ally now.
We did not need the war to become allies with them. What are you talking about?

I think in the 1970s the war was still raw in everyones minds, and people were angry having lost loved ones, but now they understand it was a political mistake, and the people who served should be honored like veterans from all our wars.
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Old 09-10-2019, 11:42 PM
 
Location: Somewhere below Mason/Dixon
6,671 posts, read 7,604,646 times
Reputation: 11165
The Vietnam war ended for America in 1973. The South Vietnam state collapsed in 1975. Most of our population was not alive in 1975, the Vietnam years of the late 60s through the early 70s were an eon ago for millennials......decades before they were born. Also worth noting is that the war was a failure, not something Hollywood or history likes to remember in this nation. The Vietnam war is to far back and not significant enough for people today to have remained educated on it. Very few people could tell you why we were there to begin with. Ask your average millennial what the Gulf of Tonkin incident was, or what is Tet? Or the Easter offensive? Operation rolling thunder or operation linebacker? How about the peace talks in 73? Really this history is not taught and most do not know it. Most could not even tell you who Ho Chi min was.

We must understand a historical event in order to make a good judgment on it. Clearly if everyone understood how we got into Vietnam and how we got bogged down there it would be universally seen as a mistake. Would I call it immoral? I would not go that far but it clearly was a bad move that cost thousands of Americans their lives.
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Old 09-11-2019, 12:51 AM
 
Location: Texas
27,350 posts, read 11,485,980 times
Reputation: 6324
Quote:
Originally Posted by StillwaterTownie View Post
I would venture to say those asked by the poll don't remember living through the Vietnam War. As someone who did, I thought it was one of the worst foreign policy post WWII mistakes the United States ever made.
It reminds me of Korea, and Afghanistan, and Iran, and Iraq, and .... the list is endless.

Best thing any President has done in the last 50 years is Nixon bringing the troops home.
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Old 09-11-2019, 01:58 AM
 
5,779 posts, read 3,168,934 times
Reputation: 3426
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stratto22 View Post
We only have the glorification of the military to keep people enrolling in the military.
It's kinda sad


I was wondering if it could have something to do with games as well.
I enjoy Battlefield 4. And whats insane is the realism of the sounds.
https://youtu.be/HyMGXOmQKJA

https://youtu.be/4L9tQ2uE2fA

https://youtu.be/H8cbzdyJMKY

Overall, Im just thinking, games kind of make war seem fun.
Just look at the new Modern warfare:
https://youtu.be/-okTz7pMLPA

They put alot of details in these games:
https://youtu.be/qmRp58sePT4


Fascinates me as someone that does animation and who’s into game design.
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Old 09-11-2019, 04:53 AM
 
5,246 posts, read 2,315,568 times
Reputation: 4161
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
You didn't read your own article nor did you read my original post.

the 20-40 million number has nothing to do with executions or "murder", it had to do with economic abrup economic change and dissolution of the traditional food chain.

That is far and away from "Mao murdered...".
and you didn't read the entire link......he sent millions to "camps" where they died....also flat out had people executed. That's not exactly related to lack of food....unless you do not count purposely starving people to death.
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Old 09-11-2019, 04:58 AM
 
5,246 posts, read 2,315,568 times
Reputation: 4161
This is a very informative read for some people here if they are inclined to be interested...

The Forgotten Soldiers Of ARVN
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Old 09-11-2019, 05:55 AM
 
Location: Manchester NH
10,144 posts, read 2,842,004 times
Reputation: 2697
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffdoorgunner View Post
This is a very informative read for some people here if they are inclined to be interested...

The Forgotten Soldiers Of ARVN
I read it and can only say its a load of nonsense (in my humble opinion). Nothing about how the war started for the Vietnamese, nothing about the Geneva conference, nothing about the South Vietnamese government and who they were.

It seems like propaganda to me.
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Old 09-11-2019, 06:07 AM
 
38,197 posts, read 16,527,528 times
Reputation: 8679
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
https://books.google.ca/books?id=y1W...page&q&f=false

In 1978 72% of Americans called the war fundamentally wrong and immoral.

As time went on the numbers consistently dropped and in 2000 only 35% thought it was wrong and immoral while even more (37%) thought it was honorable.

I know the media defends the war as a mistake rather than a war crime, and I know Americans don't care about means when the ends justify them (Vietnam today is a growing and healthy industrial economy). I also know in a lot of ways the Vietnam war was good for American geopolitical power as we have Vietnam as an ally now.

But why do less Americans see it as immoral, and so consistently less overtime? Do we know less about it, did we forget who Ho Chi Minh was, what the French war was about, what the Geneva conference agreed to?

Or is it that Americans have become more patriotic?
"Why have Americans become more supportive of the Vietnam war?"

Because over the years they have found out how much the media LIED to them about the war and we were losing when in FACT we were winning, Walter Cronkite for example claiming on nation TV, "We have lost" at the start Of the TET ofensivewge in fact we WON. Even the head of the North Viet Nam military said so.
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Old 09-11-2019, 06:16 AM
 
38,197 posts, read 16,527,528 times
Reputation: 8679
Quote:
Originally Posted by KenFresno View Post
We didn't fight the Vietnam War with our hands tied behind our back because of PCness. We limited ourselves in engagements as to not entice China into joining the war, maybe even the Soviet Union as well. Can you imagine how bad it would have been for us if we got locked into a massive land war in Southeast Asia against Vietnam, China and possibly the Soviet Union? The Vietnam War memorial would have needed to be a mile long.
"We didn't fight the Vietnam War with our hands tied behind our back because of PCness. We limited ourselves in engagements as to not entice China into joining the war,......."

We would have S-2 briefings and were told, "there is a company of VC here", will pointing to the map of the area. It was asked, "Why don't we bomb them or attack them?" and were told "we CANNOT fire at them until they fire at us FIRST".

If we had followed that phylosophy during WWI and WWII, we would NEVER had won either of them.

It is NO WAY to fight a "war"!

Had NOTHING to do with China or Russia!
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Old 09-11-2019, 06:21 AM
 
38,197 posts, read 16,527,528 times
Reputation: 8679
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigiri View Post
You forgot Nixon. Coincidence?

Nixon promised to get us out immediately - which was what he ran on!

Here is Nixon himself in 1968 - what a liar!
"I pledge to you"

Not only didn't the war end after his election, but he indiscriminately bombed NV and even considered nukes. Then he resigned as a crook and we lost in 1974/1975.

At least get your history right. Vietnam actually started under IKE and JFK and LBJ inherited it. You are correct about McNamara, who not only destroyed Ford Motor with his "bean counting", but then destroyed the best of our youth and much of our resources and treasure.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sx3rt9IYtUM
"Not only didn't the war end after his election, but he indiscriminately bombed NV and even considered nukes. Then he resigned as a crook and we lost in 1974/1975."

There is a HUGE gap in time in your rant.

A simple question, WHO ended our involvement in Nam and WHO pulled us out?

Certain NOT a dem who got us there in the 1st place and who escalated the situation there.
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