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Old 09-11-2019, 07:33 AM
 
5,255 posts, read 2,317,090 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
I read it and can only say its a load of nonsense (in my humble opinion). Nothing about how the war started for the Vietnamese, nothing about the Geneva conference, nothing about the South Vietnamese government and who they were.

It seems like propaganda to me.
you did not read the WHOLE article then. Its all touched on in detail with the informations resources mentioned.
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Old 09-11-2019, 07:38 AM
 
Location: USA
19,353 posts, read 9,372,353 times
Reputation: 14507
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quick Enough View Post
"Not only didn't the war end after his election, but he indiscriminately bombed NV and even considered nukes. Then he resigned as a crook and we lost in 1974/1975."

There is a HUGE gap in time in your rant.

A simple question, WHO ended our involvement in Nam and WHO pulled us out?

Certain NOT a dem who got us there in the 1st place and who escalated the situation there.
The Vietnam War was a proxy war to show the USSR, and China that we would stand up to the spread of Communism. It worked, but was managed very poorly by LBJ and McNamara. Nixon took the gloves off from our policy if not bombing the North so we could gain leverage in negotiating the peace. Did it work? Not really, but at least he got us out. Yes it was a cluster all around.
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Old 09-11-2019, 08:16 AM
 
Location: Texas
27,363 posts, read 11,490,951 times
Reputation: 6329
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quick Enough View Post
"Why have Americans become more supportive of the Vietnam war?"

Because over the years they have found out how much the media LIED to them about the war and we were losing when in FACT we were winning, Walter Cronkite for example claiming on nation TV, "We have lost" at the start Of the TET ofensivewge in fact we WON. Even the head of the North Viet Nam military said so.
The minute we went there we lost. No one attacked our borders and there is nothing in the Constitution about nation building.
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Old 09-11-2019, 08:20 AM
 
556 posts, read 118,086 times
Reputation: 554
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
You didn't read your own article nor did you read my original post.

the 20-40 million number has nothing to do with executions or "murder", it had to do with economic abrup economic change and dissolution of the traditional food chain.

That is far and away from "Mao murdered...".
I wrote that Mao killed 20-40 million people. So what if many of the deaths were due to disastrous economic policies? Many were murdered though. I find it bizarre that you are defending Mao.

Quote:

Frank Dikötter, a Hong Kong-based historian, said he found that during the time that Mao was enforcing the Great Leap Forward in 1958, in an effort to catch up with the economy of the Western world, he was responsible for overseeing "one of the worst catastrophes the world has ever known".


Mr Dikötter, who has been studying Chinese rural history from 1958 to 1962, when the nation was facing a famine, compared the systematic torture, brutality, starvation and killing of Chinese peasants to the Second World War in its magnitude. At least 45 million people were worked, starved or beaten to death in China over these four years
https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-e...s-2081630.html
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Old 09-11-2019, 09:23 AM
 
38,195 posts, read 16,532,194 times
Reputation: 8684
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilot1 View Post
The Vietnam War was a proxy war to show the USSR, and China that we would stand up to the spread of Communism. It worked, but was managed very poorly by LBJ and McNamara. Nixon took the gloves off from our policy if not bombing the North so we could gain leverage in negotiating the peace. Did it work? Not really, but at least he got us out. Yes it was a cluster all around.
You are entitled to YOUR opinion.......
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Old 09-11-2019, 09:29 AM
 
472 posts, read 126,597 times
Reputation: 1252
Having grown up in that era I would say that over time it isn't so much a change in perception of now supporting the war some much as having a more sympathetic/compassionate view of the soldiers who fought in the war.

At the time soldiers would be coming home, you read stories from them about how they would be spit on by protesters of the war.

With the passage of time I think, at least from my perspective, the war still was a mistake in US policy and a waste of lives, but the soldiers still deserve our respect - I think that is what has changed, imho.
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Old 09-11-2019, 10:21 AM
 
Location: Manchester NH
10,165 posts, read 2,850,445 times
Reputation: 2703
Quote:
Originally Posted by mascoma View Post
I wrote that Mao killed 20-40 million people. So what if many of the deaths were due to disastrous economic policies? Many were murdered though. I find it bizarre that you are defending Mao.


https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-e...s-2081630.html
Failed economic policies aren't murder and even then all the deaths aren't directly attributed to the policies in Beijing.

It was a period of social and economic turmoil, and food supplies started to stabilize during the Cultural Revolution and in some cases lowered overall hunger rates.

Saying Mao "murdered" forty million people is not only a gross exaggeration but also a lie used to make really progress in some cases seem like terrorism.

Just stop doing it.
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Old 09-11-2019, 11:30 AM
 
Location: Northwest Peninsula
3,311 posts, read 1,656,011 times
Reputation: 1810
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielj72 View Post
The Vietnam war ended for America in 1973. The South Vietnam state collapsed in 1975. Most of our population was not alive in 1975, the Vietnam years of the late 60s through the early 70s were an eon ago for millennials......decades before they were born. Also worth noting is that the war was a failure, not something Hollywood or history likes to remember in this nation. The Vietnam war is to far back and not significant enough for people today to have remained educated on it. Very few people could tell you why we were there to begin with. Ask your average millennial what the Gulf of Tonkin incident was, or what is Tet? Or the Easter offensive? Operation rolling thunder or operation linebacker? How about the peace talks in 73? Really this history is not taught and most do not know it. Most could not even tell you who Ho Chi min was.

We must understand a historical event in order to make a good judgment on it. Clearly if everyone understood how we got into Vietnam and how we got bogged down there it would be universally seen as a mistake. Would I call it immoral? I would not go that far but it clearly was a bad move that cost thousands of Americans their lives.

Actually I believe we got evolved in the Vietnam originally because of the SEATO treaty.

Ike sent 'military advisors' to Vietnam in the 50's and Kennedy sent more in early 1960's... the war escalated after the trumped up Gulf of Tonkin lies by LBJ.
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Old 09-11-2019, 12:24 PM
 
Location: Stillwater, Oklahoma
15,706 posts, read 13,587,373 times
Reputation: 4767
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilot1 View Post
The Vietnam War was a proxy war to show the USSR, and China that we would stand up to the spread of Communism. It worked, but was managed very poorly by LBJ and McNamara. Nixon took the gloves off from our policy if not bombing the North so we could gain leverage in negotiating the peace. Did it work? Not really, but at least he got us out. Yes it was a cluster all around.
In other words, after America so miserably failed to stop communism from establishing itself in Cuba just 90 miles away, it needed the Vietnam War to prove to USSR and China that America was still willing to stand up against communism. I always thought it looked strange to allow communism to go on in Cuba while trying to stop it 10,000 miles away in Vietnam. President Kennedy's agreement with the USSR from the Cuban missile crisis probably explains why Cuba has to remain communist clear to this day.
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Old 09-11-2019, 01:51 PM
 
Location: Boston
8,607 posts, read 2,514,293 times
Reputation: 6085
US has never won a war they didn't have to.
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