U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old Yesterday, 06:10 PM
 
9,081 posts, read 4,039,666 times
Reputation: 1784

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by craigiri View Post
Why does Trump think money doesn't cost anything? Is this because him and Jared borrow so much of it?
lol How much does it cost to create an electronic dollar?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old Yesterday, 06:29 PM
 
Location: Haiku
4,820 posts, read 2,772,090 times
Reputation: 7026
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank DeForrest View Post
Pharmaceutical co's enjoy govt privlege which in turn enforces a market monopoly for its products.

Suppose there was one TV supplier, do you suppose TV's would be as inexpensive or as high quality as they are today thanks to competitive market forces?
Are you referring to the restriction on Medicare that disallows it to negotiate prices with Pharma? That is not a regulation on the pharmaceutical industry, it is a restriction on Medicare. In any event, Trump promised us he would get rid of it and we are still waiting.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old Yesterday, 06:37 PM
 
30,477 posts, read 16,760,994 times
Reputation: 14126
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoByFour View Post
Are you referring to the restriction on Medicare that disallows it to negotiate prices with Pharma? That is not a regulation on the pharmaceutical industry, it is a restriction on Medicare. In any event, Trump promised us he would get rid of it and we are still waiting.
Uh not going to play the pretend you didnt understand my post game.

And Trump isnt going to get rid of anything.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old Yesterday, 06:40 PM
 
Location: Haiku
4,820 posts, read 2,772,090 times
Reputation: 7026
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Totally false. Why can I buy meds/medical devices OTC and at competitive prices in other countries but cannot do so here in the US?
That is a good question and will illustrate who is at fault. Take an artificial knee joint. In Mexico you can buy one for about $4000. Here in the US they cost $8000 and you have to buy it through the hospital that installs it. And you cannot bring your own, like the one from Mexico, and have the hospital put it in your knee. Reason why is not government regulations, it is because the hospital, the surgeon, and the manufacturer are all in cahoots - they all agree to only sell and install artificial knee joints from the one manufacturer. And then of course the manufacturer jacks up the price. You can go to another hospital but they each have their own private agreements with doctors and medical device manufacturers.

The problem is not regulations, it is market transparency. A free market only works if all consumers have unimpeded access to all products. But the medical industry won't allow transparency. Why won't they? Because there are NO government regulations to force them to. It is a lack of regulations that has created this situation. Why don't we have laws to force transparency? Because of the lobbyists.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old Yesterday, 06:55 PM
 
9,081 posts, read 4,039,666 times
Reputation: 1784
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoByFour View Post
That is a good question and will illustrate who is at fault. Take an artificial knee joint. In Mexico you can buy one for about $4000. Here in the US they cost $8000 and you have to buy it through the hospital that installs it. And you cannot bring your own, like the one from Mexico, and have the hospital put it in your knee. Reason why is not government regulations, it is because the hospital, the surgeon, and the manufacturer are all in cahoots - they all agree to only sell and install artificial knee joints from the one manufacturer. And then of course the manufacturer jacks up the price. You can go to another hospital but they each have their own private agreements with doctors and medical device manufacturers.

The problem is not regulations, it is market transparency. A free market only works if all consumers have unimpeded access to all products. But the medical industry won't allow transparency. Why won't they? Because there are NO government regulations to force them to. It is a lack of regulations that has created this situation. Why don't we have laws to force transparency? Because of the lobbyists.
All in cahoots?

Our surgeons want to do the best job for their patients and they want to use the best implants. So they train with those implant companies. Hospitals stock what they can. But the hospitals can't possibly stock, or the docs can't be fully trained with every implant.

Hospitals might get discounts on the implants. Surgeons cannot get any financial gain from using a specific product without full disclosure.

But the idea that a patient can bring in their own implant is absurd. Too much risk and liability there. But then that's 3rd world for you!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old Yesterday, 07:26 PM
 
Location: Haiku
4,820 posts, read 2,772,090 times
Reputation: 7026
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoonose View Post
All in cahoots?

Our surgeons want to do the best job for their patients and they want to use the best implants. So they train with those implant companies. Hospitals stock what they can. But the hospitals can't possibly stock, or the docs can't be fully trained with every implant.

Hospitals might get discounts on the implants. Surgeons cannot get any financial gain from using a specific product without full disclosure.

But the idea that a patient can bring in their own implant is absurd. Too much risk and liability there. But then that's 3rd world for you!
That knee joint you buy in Mexico is the exact same one sold in the hospital in the US, but just like drugs, the manufacturer jacks up the price in the US.

In any event, my point is that regulation has nothing to do with this situation.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old Yesterday, 07:48 PM
 
Location: Unperson Everyman Land
30,836 posts, read 20,349,142 times
Reputation: 8563
Quote:
Originally Posted by cuebald View Post
Hey - The insurance companies have to make a little, you know.


No skin off my ass!

My employer pays for my health insurance.

Remind me again why we want to relieve greedy corporations of that normal operating expense so that working Americans can pay it instead.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old Yesterday, 08:14 PM
 
9,081 posts, read 4,039,666 times
Reputation: 1784
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoByFour View Post
That knee joint you buy in Mexico is the exact same one sold in the hospital in the US, but just like drugs, the manufacturer jacks up the price in the US.

In any event, my point is that regulation has nothing to do with this situation.
Well of course one has to know if the part is the same, not counterfeit, safe, sterile and secure just as the hospital obtains the part in the USA. Of course we jack up the price, that's capitalism and profits are very American. I will let my HC insurer do the price haggling on conventionally supplied goods, thank you.

Moving forward toward more UHC, profits in the US will have to drop. Just about inevitable. But of course if they drop too far, we could be in a stink if docs start dragging their feet, hospitals and related suppliers have to cut back or go under.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old Yesterday, 08:28 PM
 
2,019 posts, read 510,820 times
Reputation: 1815
Quote:
Originally Posted by neko_mimi View Post
Do doctors just work for free under this medicare system? I don't see how else the cost could be zero.

I paid zero dollars for my son's birth up in Canada. Of course, everyone pays for the medical system through taxes up there. You still save more in the long run though.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old Yesterday, 08:36 PM
 
Location: Haiku
4,820 posts, read 2,772,090 times
Reputation: 7026
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoonose View Post
Well of course one has to know if the part is the same, not counterfeit, safe, sterile and secure just as the hospital obtains the part in the USA. Of course we jack up the price, that's capitalism and profits are very American. I will let my HC insurer do the price haggling on conventionally supplied goods, thank you.
The reason I know about the knee joint is there was an article in the NY Times recently about a US insurance company that is flying their customers to Mexico for knee replacement, and they also fly their US doctor. So the doc is putting in the knee joint they were trained on. The insurance company is fully indemnifying the operation - any complications they will pick up the tab. And they are paying the patient $5000 to boot. The fact that they are doing this just shows out of whack things are in the US.

The medical industry is worse than the proverbial military industrial complex. They have built up a system that is so convoluted and without transparency it is nearly impossible to have it be a truly open and competitive market. It really needs to be over-hauled top to bottom.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top