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Old Today, 01:51 PM
 
Location: Coastal New Jersey
57,330 posts, read 55,562,724 times
Reputation: 68311

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Quote:
Originally Posted by thelogo View Post
I don't believe for one second the official story.

Here some things I find suspicious:

- Netanyahu said 9/11 was good for Israel.

- Trump said on video that day it was impossible those buildings collapsed from fire.

- Shorting stocks in airlines and insurance companies.

- Multiple military drills that day.

- Trillions of dollars continue to be accounted in the Pentagon. I understand this doesn't necessarily mean stolen/missing. Let's just say the trillions of dollars unaccounted for keep increasing every year.

- Giving visas to terrorists in Saudi Arabia.

- The war on terror has been beneficial for the military industrial complex (weapons, intelligence, equipment, etc)

- Oil producers benefited from higher oil prices.

And on and on...
Excuse me, but what the hell would TRUMP know about the WTC buildings or the collapse analysis???? In 2001 he was just some wealthy goofball in the hotel and real estate industry who liked to get his name in the news. He had no connection with the World Trade Center, and he's certainly no structural engineer.

I'm going with what the real live structural and civil engineers say WHO WERE THERE that day, for the cleanup, the investigation, and who reviewed the NIST draft report.

(Cue some low-IQ-er posting that retarded "9/11 A&E" site"...)
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Old Today, 01:58 PM
 
Location: Suburb of Chicago
21,643 posts, read 10,416,312 times
Reputation: 20704
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801 View Post
Do you actually know anyone who REALLY believes that, though? I mean, it's a popular thing that's always said in these conversations, but I've never met anyone who believes what the government tells them without question. Not one person. Ever. And I am 61 years old.

My mother is nearly 91, of sound mind, fairly conservative and religious, and she doesn't believe everything the government tells her.

Why would she? She lived through the Great Depression and WWII.

The problem here is that so many of you have no clear idea what the "the government" said and what it didn't say. There seems to be this bizarre perception that "the government" swooped down on lower Manhattan after 9/11 and cordoned it off and conducted the recovery and cleanup and investigation in some kind of secret operation. It simply is not true, and there are literally tens of thousands of people in NYC who can verify that.

Did someone in "the government" have something to do with the attacks? Did someone in "the government" know it was going to happen and let it even if they didn't do it themselves? I don't know, neither do you. Are those things possible? YES.

But I do know that there was no controlled demolition, and that the towers were not hollow and empty and it was all faked, and that there were actually airplanes flown in the buildings, and that from the impact the steel was terribly damaged, and that there was fire throughout the buildings from the jet fuel, and I know those things because a) I was INSIDE one of those towers at impact, b) I knew what the steel was supposed to sound like because I worked there and listened to it for 20 years and knew that the sound was wrong and the steel was badly damaged--and if you don't know what I mean by this it means you don't know basic jack squat about the World Trade Center, and c) because I literally know hundreds of engineers who were in the building that day who knew the structure, who participated in the collapse analysis no matter how very badly some people want you to believe that "the government" did the investigation of the collapse in a vacuum, and who have no reason to lie for a government that you want to believe killed their friends and family.

It is a sign of our times that people think that what they see on video is everything, when in fact, when I watch the videos of that day, I am amazed how much you cannot see and hear. The vids are shot from a quarter mile away. You don't see the pieces of the building falling from the impact sites (and hitting/killing people) before the collapses, you don't truly hear the sound that the collapses made going down, and you don't see the fires and smell the jet fuel and see the people with skin hanging from their bodies being walked down the stairs or the plane parts and body parts lying on the Plaza. And in the Naudet brothers' film of the impact of the first tower, it is absolutely astounding to me that the plane looks as if it sails into the north side of the tower like butter when in reality, at that moment, all hell broke loose inside.

I realize most people who so very badly have their hearts set on believing the conspiracy sites would not be interested in reading a book, but if anyone is truly interested in the events of the day, one book that is helpful to understand a small part of what it was like inside the buildings is this one (not the documentary of the same name, which is different.)

https://www.amazon.com/102-Minutes-U.../dp/0805094210

And I had an Israeli coworker. He survived, but apparently he didn't get the IM. Not saying your posted story isn't true, but this sounds suspiciously like the conspiracy tale that "no Jews were in the WTC that day because they were warned". I have a number of dead Jewish coworkers, as well as Muslims, Christians, and Hindus, and others.
Absolutely. They're the same dopes who think they're keeping up with factual information through mainstream media.
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Old Today, 02:00 PM
 
Location: Coastal New Jersey
57,330 posts, read 55,562,724 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MPowering1 View Post
Absolutely. They're the same dopes who think they're keeping up with factual information through mainstream media.
Alrighty, then. I am fortunate I've never come across them!

The ones who believe everything they read on the Interwebz are just as bad. Mirror image.

My own 50-year-old brother buys into every conspiracy theory that exists. If you say you went to the dentist, that will launch him into how the government is using fluoride to control our brains.

Even though I worked at the WTC for 20 years and knew more about the buildings than the average person, even though I was inside One WTC on 9/11 when AA11 slammed into it, even though I literally know hundreds, if not more, of people who worked on the pile and at Fresh Kills afterward and have spent the last 40 years in the NYC engineering industry, he tells me I am wrong about what I know, even about what I saw and heard and felt that day. Because, you know, it says something different on the conspiracy sites.

And yes, true to stereotype, he lives with our 90-year-old mother and has been unemployed for years.
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Old Today, 02:08 PM
 
Location: Suburb of Chicago
21,643 posts, read 10,416,312 times
Reputation: 20704
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801 View Post
Alrighty, then. I am fortunate I've never come across them!

The ones who believe everything they read on the Interwebz are just as bad. Mirror image.

My own 50-year-old brother buys into every conspiracy theory that exists. If you say you went to the dentist, that will launch him into how the government is using fluoride to control our brains.

Even though I worked at the WTC for 20 years and knew more about the buildings than the average person, even though I was inside One WTC on 9/11 when AA11 slammed into it, even though I literally know hundreds, if not more, of people who worked on the pile and at Fresh Kills afterward and have spent the last 40 years in the NYC engineering industry, he tells me I am wrong about what I know, even about what I saw and heard and felt that day. Because, you know, it says something different on the conspiracy sites.

And yes, true to stereotype, he lives with our 90-year-old mother and has been unemployed for years.
Yep, you are blessed and I agree there are extremists on both sides.
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Old Today, 02:32 PM
 
Location: SM
25,952 posts, read 10,012,252 times
Reputation: 9986
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801 View Post
Do you actually know anyone who REALLY believes that, though? I mean, it's a popular thing that's always said in these conversations, but I've never met anyone who believes what the government tells them without question. Not one person. Ever. And I am 61 years old.

My mother is nearly 91, of sound mind, fairly conservative and religious, and she doesn't believe everything the government tells her.

Why would she? She lived through the Great Depression and WWII.

The problem here is that so many of you have no clear idea what the "the government" said and what it didn't say. There seems to be this bizarre perception that "the government" swooped down on lower Manhattan after 9/11 and cordoned it off and conducted the recovery and cleanup and investigation in some kind of secret operation. It simply is not true, and there are literally tens of thousands of people in NYC who can verify that.

Did someone in "the government" have something to do with the attacks? Did someone in "the government" know it was going to happen and let it even if they didn't do it themselves? I don't know, neither do you. Are those things possible? YES.

But I do know that there was no controlled demolition, and that the towers were not hollow and empty and it was all faked, and that there were actually airplanes flown in the buildings, and that from the impact the steel was terribly damaged, and that there was fire throughout the buildings from the jet fuel, and I know those things because a) I was INSIDE one of those towers at impact, b) I knew what the steel was supposed to sound like because I worked there and listened to it for 20 years and knew that the sound was wrong and the steel was badly damaged--and if you don't know what I mean by this it means you don't know basic jack squat about the World Trade Center, and c) because I literally know hundreds of engineers who were in the building that day who knew the structure, who participated in the collapse analysis no matter how very badly some people want you to believe that "the government" did the investigation of the collapse in a vacuum, and who have no reason to lie for a government that you want to believe killed their friends and family.

It is a sign of our times that people think that what they see on video is everything, when in fact, when I watch the videos of that day, I am amazed how much you cannot see and hear. The vids are shot from a quarter mile away. You don't see the pieces of the building falling from the impact sites (and hitting/killing people) before the collapses, you don't truly hear the sound that the collapses made going down, and you don't see the fires and smell the jet fuel and see the people with skin hanging from their bodies being walked down the stairs or the plane parts and body parts lying on the Plaza. And in the Naudet brothers' film of the impact of the first tower, it is absolutely astounding to me that the plane looks as if it sails into the north side of the tower like butter when in reality, at that moment, all hell broke loose inside.

I realize most people who so very badly have their hearts set on believing the conspiracy sites would not be interested in reading a book, but if anyone is truly interested in the events of the day, one book that is helpful to understand a small part of what it was like inside the buildings is this one (not the documentary of the same name, which is different.)

https://www.amazon.com/102-Minutes-U.../dp/0805094210

And I had an Israeli coworker. He survived, but apparently he didn't get the IM. Not saying your posted story isn't true, but this sounds suspiciously like the conspiracy tale that "no Jews were in the WTC that day because they were warned". I have a number of dead Jewish coworkers, as well as Muslims, Christians, and Hindus, and others.
I'll only focus on the bold because I believe you once argued with me over this before...or something along the lines.

The rubble was a crime scene and as a crime scene it wasn't processed to any standard by federal, state, or local government. You can find those guides, specifically detailed, online now. Back then they were on file inside police departments and other government agencies.

On that point there is no debate. You then wailed, previously, that it was toxic and had to be removed immediately.

I'm not implying anything. I'm only stating the fact that for whatever reason the crime scene wasn't processed to protocol. That being the case, any individual facing charges stemming from the incident would/could rightfully have their case dismissed on these grounds alone.

It doesn't matter that it was toxic. That only means you must quarantine off the area per the processing procedure and then conduct forensics. There are no exceptions whether it's lower Manhattan or a cornfield in Iowa.

It was the most shocking thing to me, as someone who was relatively young in his criminal justice career, to see such a blatant disregard for procedure. I will not make any claims either way but there is no debate that the U.S. government failed to uphold its own rules/laws (shocking).
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Old Today, 02:42 PM
 
Location: 15 months till retirement and I can leave the hell hole of New Yakistan
25,607 posts, read 14,248,743 times
Reputation: 6624
Quote:
Originally Posted by boneyard1962 View Post
There is still a nagging question. Why did Sandy Berger feel the need to steel classified documents and try to keep them from the 9/11 commission?
sandy stole stuff in 2000/early 2001....had to do with the criminal Clintons...
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Old Today, 03:02 PM
 
Location: Ohio
20,338 posts, read 14,460,499 times
Reputation: 16525
Quote:
Originally Posted by victimofGM View Post
https://www.popularmechanics.com/mil...-trade-center/

Seems every year the number of people believing these conspiracies grows and they come out the woodwork on the anniversary of 9/11 so above is my response to them.
Get real. Popular Mechanics is on a par with Pukipedia and in no way an authority on the subject matter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PedroMartinez View Post
Terrorists conspired to attack the US using passenger jets.

That was the only conspiracy which occurred.
No, that was just part of a larger conspiracy.

Tell us which law enforcement agency conducted a criminal investigation to support your claim.

Oh, that's right, no law enforcement agency has ever conducted any criminal investigation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gmagoo View Post
The way conspiracies work is by taking one small sliver of truth and build an entire story around it. A friend told me that flight 93 which crashed in Somerset county Pa. was actually shot down by our military over Ohio. He went on to say that a lab has a piece of the wing that proves it. I asked him which lab has the wing and that brought the conversation to an end.
Flight 93 was shot down.

Donald Rumsfeld so stated. You can watch the video.

Federal law requires any aircraft involved in any incident to be reconstructed.

The 8-Ball (TWA Flight 800) was reconstructed and still sits in a warehouse to this day, if you want to go and see it.

Why was federal law violated by not reconstructing Flight 77 and Flight 93?

It is unfeasible and impossible to reconstruct the aircraft that hit the WTC, but there's no excuse for Flights 77 & 93.

The evidence in addition to Rumsfeld's voluntary admission that Flight 93 was shot down includes credible witnesses who recall an officer asking Cheney, "Sir, does the order still stand?"

What order?

I'm a combat veteran. I understand certain realities. I also worked on and with nuclear weapons for years. There were standing orders to down any aircraft that approached any nuclear weapon, whether that weapon was in-flight on a CH-47 Chinook, C-130 Hercules or C-141 Starlifter or sitting on any hot cargo pad or apron, or in any storage facility.

Those standing orders were for everyone's safety.

I would imagine there are standing orders to down unauthorized aircraft, especially with a known hostile intent, the Military District of Washington to protect the people and certain facilities like the White House, the Capitol Building, the Pentagon, Arlington Hall Station, Fort McNair, foreign government embassies and the like.

So, was there a standing order, or did Cheney issue an order?

I don't have a problem with that. I could make that call and live with it. It wouldn't be an easy call to make, but you do what you need to do to protect others and certain assets.

In addition to Rumsfeld's voluntary admission and the statements of credible witnesses, we have the known physical evidence.

The location of the port engine and its distance from and in relation to the fuselage indicates hit was struck in-flight by an AIM-9 Sidewinder in heat-seeking mode (likely because it would create the best chance for survivors unlike ESM- or radar-mode which would have struck the aircraft in the fuselage or wing).

Tell us why federal law was violated by refusing to reconstruct Flights 77 & 93.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NeutralParty View Post
People who believe 9/11 was a conspiracy theory are weird.
Yeah, and it was thought that people who said the US government murdered Americans during illegal radiation experiments at Cincinnati General Hospital were weird, too.

When technicians and medical staff came forward with the story, the government smeared them.

Then nurses came forward in support of the technicians and medical staff, and the government smeared them, too, suggesting the nurses were promiscuous home-wreckers addicted to morphine.

Unable to tolerate the government's smear campaign, several doctors came forward.

Oooops...

It's somewhat difficult to smear a single doctor, and even harder to smear a group of doctors.

Then Dr Sanger, the head of the program, proudly admitted it all and that was the end of that.

86 Americans were murders by the US government and possibly more than 350, but we won't until the late 2040s when the remaining documents are scheduled for declassification review.

The government uses the DOJ and CIA to plant stories in the Media.

You can read the reports of the Pike Committee, Church Committee and House Select-Committee on Assassinations to see how the government conducts smear campaigns, and you should, since your hard-earned tax-dollars paid for those reports and paid for the smear campaigns.

Quote:
Originally Posted by victimofGM View Post
The WTC was attacked when Clinton/Gore were in office in 1993 and I have no conspiracy theory they orchestrated the attack nor the attacks that happened on the US Embassies, Us Navy ship, nor the Air Force barracks. Seems some forget Islamic terrorism started long before 9/11.
Quote:
Originally Posted by boneyard1962 View Post
The real inconvenient truth.
It's a real convenient deflection.

Apparently neither of you are smart enough to understand that precisely because there had been a prior attack it would be easy to blame another for one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wallbuilder View Post
I don't believe ideas like dynamite being planted in the towers, but I believe that many people in the U.S. connected to the military-industrial complex planned this attack many years in advance and helped Al-Qaeda pull it off. I don't buy the story of 20 guys took a cessna flying class and hels up 100s of passengers with box cutters and flew commercial jets perfectly into buildings like only the most skilled pilots could do.
In a classic conspiracy, you have powerful people, almost always men, who are wealthy and well-connected. They are the Principals. They come up with the idea, but never get their hands dirty and are beyond reproach.

The Principals, through their professional and social relationships, directly or indirectly know people who are capable of carrying out the plan.

These are the Conspirators. They craft the plan and bring it to fruition. Like the Principals, they don't get their hands dirty, either, unless they have plausible deniability and they employ Actors to carry out the tasks necessary to complete the Conspiracy.

The Actors carry out the tasks without any knowledge of the Conspiracy.

Why? Because Actors do what they normally do in the ordinary course of business, or there's a financial or career incentive, or some other incentive.

For example, the Port Authority of New York & New Jersey is privatizing all of their assets which include the ports at Bayonne, New York and other ports, the airports, train stations and bus terminals and properties, including the World Trade Center and others.

The WTC is scheduled to be bid out in 2004.

That will never do. I need that moved up to 1999.

As a Conspirator, I cannot approach the board members of the Port Authority and attempt to convince them to move up the bid schedule without drawing attention to me and creating a conspiratorial link between me and the board members.

So, I get you to do it for me.

I don't tell you why the bid schedule for the WTC needs to be changed from 2004 to 1999 --because that would be stupid --- I only tell you it needs to be done, and hint there might be something in it for you.

Or, maybe you're a "people-pleaser" and you will do anything anyone asks you to do, because you just don't know how to say "No."

Maybe you're a lawyer who has a history of dealings with the board members of the Port Authority, or a real estate agent, or a real estate attorney or a banker or an accountant.

You don't have to convince every board member, just a simple majority to out-vote the others.

Then Vornado Realty wins the bid.

That will never do. I need them to back out so that Larry Silverstein gets the winning bid.

How do I do that?

Well, I or my Co-Conspirators have contacts in the FBI, probably contacts in the CIA, and in the IRS and I have money from the Principals, so I can hire a private investigator to check out Vornado Realty.

Maybe I can bribe Vornado to back out, since their name will be "mud" in the real estate business from that day forward. Or maybe I need to threaten them with an IRS audit, a criminal investigation by the FBI, or maybe I need to threaten them or their families with physical harm to get them to back out.

Whatever I do, I won't do it, rather I'll get someone else to do the dirty work for me.

And, I'm not going to tell them, "Hey, you need to do this so I can blow up the WTC." That might be what you see on TV shows and in movies, but that's not how it works in real life.

Another Co-Conspirator in the CIA has already gotten the ball rolling. With the knowledge, permission or authority of his supervisors, he has made contact with his counter-part in the Pakistani ISI and planted the idea that bin Laden has authorized attacks on the WTC, and this is how it is to be done.

There are Taliban and al-Qaida double-agents in the Pakistani ISI and have been for decades. There are also Taliban and al-Qaida sympathizers. They're all willing to help their respective groups, by passing on information like pending intelligence or military operations by Pakistan, the US or foreign governments, and diplomatic and financial information.

You might not like your boss, yet you still work for your boss, right?

Yeah, well, it's the same in al-Qaida. Not everyone worships bin Laden and there are some al-Qaida members who would like a change in leadership, or be totally indifferent to a change in leadership.

Some al-Qaida members might see that as killing two birds with one stone: striking the Great Satan and getting rid of bin Laden.

See how that works?

And, to create the greatest amount of confusion leading to the greatest likelihood of success, I would want to steer the attacks so that they coincide on the day several major military operational exercises are to take place and my Co-Conspirators and I would use our power, influence and resources to ensure such operations were scheduled and also ensure that FEMA has a major disaster exercise scheduled in New York City on the day of the attacks.

It worked.

The evidence is overwhelming.

There's audio tape of civilian and military air-traffic controllers, military and civilian pilots and military and civilian personnel asking if it is real or an exercise.

Anyway, that's how conspiracies really work.

I guess it's a good thing the criminal investigation uncovered that.

Oooops...

There was no criminal investigation.

Every government at every level and all bureaucracies abhors embarrassment.

At the first whiff of embarrassment, they immediately move to cover-up.

There US government is guilty of two things: covering-up and not being able to control some of its employees. Some government employees are in very powerful positions, or wield a great deal of authority or have access to discretionary funds or a combination. They can pretty much do whatever they want, like engage in conspiratorial activities.

If a criminal investigation did lead to a handful of well-placed government employees -- and that's all it would take to carry out this conspiracy --- that would be a tremendous embarrassment.

Thus, the reason to cover-up.
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Old Today, 03:05 PM
 
Location: Boston
8,501 posts, read 2,482,507 times
Reputation: 6007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801 View Post
Excuse me, but what the hell would TRUMP know about the WTC buildings or the collapse analysis???? In 2001 he was just some wealthy goofball in the hotel and real estate industry who liked to get his name in the news. He had no connection with the World Trade Center, and he's certainly no structural engineer.

I'm going with what the real live structural and civil engineers say WHO WERE THERE that day, for the cleanup, the investigation, and who reviewed the NIST draft report.

(Cue some low-IQ-er posting that retarded "9/11 A&E" site"...)
TDS, it's real. And a great source of humor....Now that we can dispel the rumor that Cheney wired the building, let's moved on to Trump doing it....
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Old Today, 03:10 PM
 
Location: Orange County, CA
1,995 posts, read 1,985,350 times
Reputation: 963
Quote:
Originally Posted by thelogo View Post
I don't believe for one second the official story.

Here some things I find suspicious:

- Netanyahu said 9/11 was good for Israel.
There's also something about 5 "dancing Israelis" nearby that were celebrating after the towers went down.
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Old Today, 03:44 PM
 
10,272 posts, read 8,395,264 times
Reputation: 14116
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
Get real. Popular Mechanics is on a par with Pukipedia and in no way an authority on the subject matter.



No, that was just part of a larger conspiracy.

Tell us which law enforcement agency conducted a criminal investigation to support your claim.

Oh, that's right, no law enforcement agency has ever conducted any criminal investigation.



Flight 93 was shot down.

Donald Rumsfeld so stated. You can watch the video.

Federal law requires any aircraft involved in any incident to be reconstructed.

The 8-Ball (TWA Flight 800) was reconstructed and still sits in a warehouse to this day, if you want to go and see it.

Why was federal law violated by not reconstructing Flight 77 and Flight 93?

It is unfeasible and impossible to reconstruct the aircraft that hit the WTC, but there's no excuse for Flights 77 & 93.

The evidence in addition to Rumsfeld's voluntary admission that Flight 93 was shot down includes credible witnesses who recall an officer asking Cheney, "Sir, does the order still stand?"

What order?

I'm a combat veteran. I understand certain realities. I also worked on and with nuclear weapons for years. There were standing orders to down any aircraft that approached any nuclear weapon, whether that weapon was in-flight on a CH-47 Chinook, C-130 Hercules or C-141 Starlifter or sitting on any hot cargo pad or apron, or in any storage facility.

Those standing orders were for everyone's safety.

I would imagine there are standing orders to down unauthorized aircraft, especially with a known hostile intent, the Military District of Washington to protect the people and certain facilities like the White House, the Capitol Building, the Pentagon, Arlington Hall Station, Fort McNair, foreign government embassies and the like.

So, was there a standing order, or did Cheney issue an order?

I don't have a problem with that. I could make that call and live with it. It wouldn't be an easy call to make, but you do what you need to do to protect others and certain assets.

In addition to Rumsfeld's voluntary admission and the statements of credible witnesses, we have the known physical evidence.

The location of the port engine and its distance from and in relation to the fuselage indicates hit was struck in-flight by an AIM-9 Sidewinder in heat-seeking mode (likely because it would create the best chance for survivors unlike ESM- or radar-mode which would have struck the aircraft in the fuselage or wing).

Tell us why federal law was violated by refusing to reconstruct Flights 77 & 93.



Yeah, and it was thought that people who said the US government murdered Americans during illegal radiation experiments at Cincinnati General Hospital were weird, too.

When technicians and medical staff came forward with the story, the government smeared them.

Then nurses came forward in support of the technicians and medical staff, and the government smeared them, too, suggesting the nurses were promiscuous home-wreckers addicted to morphine.

Unable to tolerate the government's smear campaign, several doctors came forward.

Oooops...

It's somewhat difficult to smear a single doctor, and even harder to smear a group of doctors.

Then Dr Sanger, the head of the program, proudly admitted it all and that was the end of that.

86 Americans were murders by the US government and possibly more than 350, but we won't until the late 2040s when the remaining documents are scheduled for declassification review.

The government uses the DOJ and CIA to plant stories in the Media.

You can read the reports of the Pike Committee, Church Committee and House Select-Committee on Assassinations to see how the government conducts smear campaigns, and you should, since your hard-earned tax-dollars paid for those reports and paid for the smear campaigns.





It's a real convenient deflection.

Apparently neither of you are smart enough to understand that precisely because there had been a prior attack it would be easy to blame another for one.



In a classic conspiracy, you have powerful people, almost always men, who are wealthy and well-connected. They are the Principals. They come up with the idea, but never get their hands dirty and are beyond reproach.

The Principals, through their professional and social relationships, directly or indirectly know people who are capable of carrying out the plan.

These are the Conspirators. They craft the plan and bring it to fruition. Like the Principals, they don't get their hands dirty, either, unless they have plausible deniability and they employ Actors to carry out the tasks necessary to complete the Conspiracy.

The Actors carry out the tasks without any knowledge of the Conspiracy.

Why? Because Actors do what they normally do in the ordinary course of business, or there's a financial or career incentive, or some other incentive.

For example, the Port Authority of New York & New Jersey is privatizing all of their assets which include the ports at Bayonne, New York and other ports, the airports, train stations and bus terminals and properties, including the World Trade Center and others.

The WTC is scheduled to be bid out in 2004.

That will never do. I need that moved up to 1999.

As a Conspirator, I cannot approach the board members of the Port Authority and attempt to convince them to move up the bid schedule without drawing attention to me and creating a conspiratorial link between me and the board members.

So, I get you to do it for me.

I don't tell you why the bid schedule for the WTC needs to be changed from 2004 to 1999 --because that would be stupid --- I only tell you it needs to be done, and hint there might be something in it for you.

Or, maybe you're a "people-pleaser" and you will do anything anyone asks you to do, because you just don't know how to say "No."

Maybe you're a lawyer who has a history of dealings with the board members of the Port Authority, or a real estate agent, or a real estate attorney or a banker or an accountant.

You don't have to convince every board member, just a simple majority to out-vote the others.

Then Vornado Realty wins the bid.

That will never do. I need them to back out so that Larry Silverstein gets the winning bid.

How do I do that?

Well, I or my Co-Conspirators have contacts in the FBI, probably contacts in the CIA, and in the IRS and I have money from the Principals, so I can hire a private investigator to check out Vornado Realty.

Maybe I can bribe Vornado to back out, since their name will be "mud" in the real estate business from that day forward. Or maybe I need to threaten them with an IRS audit, a criminal investigation by the FBI, or maybe I need to threaten them or their families with physical harm to get them to back out.

Whatever I do, I won't do it, rather I'll get someone else to do the dirty work for me.

And, I'm not going to tell them, "Hey, you need to do this so I can blow up the WTC." That might be what you see on TV shows and in movies, but that's not how it works in real life.

Another Co-Conspirator in the CIA has already gotten the ball rolling. With the knowledge, permission or authority of his supervisors, he has made contact with his counter-part in the Pakistani ISI and planted the idea that bin Laden has authorized attacks on the WTC, and this is how it is to be done.

There are Taliban and al-Qaida double-agents in the Pakistani ISI and have been for decades. There are also Taliban and al-Qaida sympathizers. They're all willing to help their respective groups, by passing on information like pending intelligence or military operations by Pakistan, the US or foreign governments, and diplomatic and financial information.

You might not like your boss, yet you still work for your boss, right?

Yeah, well, it's the same in al-Qaida. Not everyone worships bin Laden and there are some al-Qaida members who would like a change in leadership, or be totally indifferent to a change in leadership.

Some al-Qaida members might see that as killing two birds with one stone: striking the Great Satan and getting rid of bin Laden.

See how that works?

And, to create the greatest amount of confusion leading to the greatest likelihood of success, I would want to steer the attacks so that they coincide on the day several major military operational exercises are to take place and my Co-Conspirators and I would use our power, influence and resources to ensure such operations were scheduled and also ensure that FEMA has a major disaster exercise scheduled in New York City on the day of the attacks.

It worked.

The evidence is overwhelming.

There's audio tape of civilian and military air-traffic controllers, military and civilian pilots and military and civilian personnel asking if it is real or an exercise.

Anyway, that's how conspiracies really work.

I guess it's a good thing the criminal investigation uncovered that.

Oooops...

There was no criminal investigation.

Every government at every level and all bureaucracies abhors embarrassment.

At the first whiff of embarrassment, they immediately move to cover-up.

There US government is guilty of two things: covering-up and not being able to control some of its employees. Some government employees are in very powerful positions, or wield a great deal of authority or have access to discretionary funds or a combination. They can pretty much do whatever they want, like engage in conspiratorial activities.

If a criminal investigation did lead to a handful of well-placed government employees -- and that's all it would take to carry out this conspiracy --- that would be a tremendous embarrassment.

Thus, the reason to cover-up.
Thatís some manifesto you typed up there. Could almost picture a huddled shape in a dark room typing this with a wide-eyed frantic fevered pace trying to reveal the truth that only you can see frustrated that others donít see what you see. You also neglected to include any links to videos or news articles to back up your statements. Hereís what I know or believe to be factual information.
1. Passenger airplanes did hit the WTC towers. The speed and mass of the planes caused significant damage to the structure.
2. The burning jet fuel combined with the force of the impact caused the steel to weaken.
3. Once weakened the steel structure could no longer support the weight of the floors above and so collapsed.
4. The force of that collapsed was too much for the already weakened floors below and so they collapsed like pancakes with such force as to pulverize the concrete to dust.
5. George W Bush was President for less than a year when this happened. Far less time to plan and carry out such an operation.


Now, could other agents besides Islamic terrorist have played a part in the attacks? Plausible but at this point all I see is conjecture, not bonafide proof or evidence that one could take to court.
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