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Old Yesterday, 03:46 PM
 
5,056 posts, read 1,419,820 times
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By the time you set out on the internet to search for something to "prove" X, Y, or Z idea you currently have in your head; you already f**ked up.

When you go on the internet to search for things to support some deeply held belief you have instead of trying to poke holes in your own position and keeping whatever is still standing at the end; you already f**ked up.
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Old Yesterday, 04:06 PM
 
1,548 posts, read 325,968 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lycanmaster View Post
There's also something about 5 "dancing Israelis" nearby that were celebrating after the towers went down.
Yes. In an enterview one of them said they were there " to document the event."

More interesting is the fact that Silvestein got a lease of the buildings for $3.2 billions a few weeks before the event, but got $4.6 billions from the insurance afterwards.
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Old Yesterday, 04:23 PM
 
Location: Coastal New Jersey
57,337 posts, read 55,562,724 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by No_Recess View Post
I'll only focus on the bold because I believe you once argued with me over this before...or something along the lines.

The rubble was a crime scene and as a crime scene it wasn't processed to any standard by federal, state, or local government. You can find those guides, specifically detailed, online now. Back then they were on file inside police departments and other government agencies.

On that point there is no debate. You then wailed, previously, that it was toxic and had to be removed immediately.

I'm not implying anything. I'm only stating the fact that for whatever reason the crime scene wasn't processed to protocol. That being the case, any individual facing charges stemming from the incident would/could rightfully have their case dismissed on these grounds alone.

It doesn't matter that it was toxic. That only means you must quarantine off the area per the processing procedure and then conduct forensics. There are no exceptions whether it's lower Manhattan or a cornfield in Iowa.

It was the most shocking thing to me, as someone who was relatively young in his criminal justice career, to see such a blatant disregard for procedure. I will not make any claims either way but there is no debate that the U.S. government failed to uphold its own rules/laws (shocking).
OK. I won't argue with you about crime scene procedures. I'm sure you are right with your educational background. I just don't see how that could have happened here, and I don't think you really understand the scope of the "crime scene" or devastation that was there. First of all, as you are aware, in the first days the idea was to try to recover trapped people. There were only about five. After about a week, it became clear that there wouldn't be any more.

I would not have said it was toxic and had to be removed immediately, because it WASN'T removed immediately. It took nine months, remember? How would they have "conducted forensics" on a smoking pile of that size without removing the debris to Fresh Kills as they did? And why would it be the US government conducting this crime scene investigation? That's an honest question. The US government doesn't normally process crime scenes in other jurisdictions, does it?

You couldn't exactly "quarantine" the toxicity. It was sixteen acres and 70 feet high of smoking rubble, and the fires, as you know, burned until January. Air doesn't stay in one place.

At any rate, it would have been interesting to see investigators from the "US government" trying to keep FDNY, PAPD, and NYPD off the site!
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Old Yesterday, 04:24 PM
 
Location: 15 months till retirement and I can leave the hell hole of New Yakistan
25,611 posts, read 14,253,832 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lycanmaster View Post
There's also something about 5 "dancing Israelis" nearby that were celebrating after the towers went down.
Dancing Israelis

the supposed 5 dancing Israelis was those 5 arrested (btw it was proven false that they were jews)
Quote:
The New York Times reported Thursday that a group of five men had set up video cameras aimed at the Twin Towers prior to the attack on Tuesday, and were seen congratulating one another afterwards.


original story:
Separately, officials said a group of about five men were now under investigation in Union City, suspected of assisting the hijackers. In addition, the officials said the men had apparently set up cameras near the Hudson River and fixed them on the World Trade Center. They photographed the attacks and were said to have congratulated each other afterward, officials said.

AFTER THE ATTACKS: THE INVESTIGATION; BIN LADEN TIE CITED
By DAVID JOHNSTON AND JAMES RISEN
Published: September 13, 2001
New York Times



The report itself is very early, published on the 13th, perhaps written less than 24 hours after they were arrested, so it would be surprising if officials had definitive answers

she saw three young men kneeling on the roof of a white van in the parking lot of her apartment building,



What’s more, if you look at the full 20/20 transcript from which this story is derived, you find that Maria says she saw the van park after she’d been watching the WTC for a few minutes..... so not involved with the attack

Mr. RAM HORVITZ: This story about the five boys being connected with Israeli intelligence is the most stupid and ridiculous story that I ever heard, and it is nonsense.*I don't know who invented this story.
18 years later and idiots are still repeating alex jones garbage
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Old Yesterday, 04:27 PM
 
Location: 15 months till retirement and I can leave the hell hole of New Yakistan
25,611 posts, read 14,253,832 times
Reputation: 6625
Quote:
Originally Posted by thelogo View Post
Yes. In an enterview one of them said they were there " to document the event."

More interesting is the fact that Silvestein got a lease of the buildings for $3.2 billions a few weeks before the event, but got $4.6 billions from the insurance afterwards.
oh please

silverstein LOST money




silverstein:
he lost money on the whole thing
uhm the insurance money was only about 5 billion and it has taken over 15 billion to rebuild...plus he is still paying for towers that dont exist...silverstein, no matter how much you dont like him, lost money on the deal

The final tally of what silverstein got from insurance is $4.6 billion at a maximum, although this may be subject to change (up or down) as a result of court rulings. (there were some appeals still within the court system as of 2013)

And of course this isn't profit for Silverstein. The money is being provided for him to rebuild the WTC complex, and it turns out that's quite expensive ($8.3 billion in April 2006, ). now at over 14 billion with the cost over runs

$4.6 billion in insurance money, $14.3 billion in costs? Not such a great deal, then.



Silverstein Properties and the Port Authority continue to be guided by a lease each signed six weeks before the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks. The lease stipulates that should the complex be destroyed, Silverstein must continue to pay the $120 million a year rent in order to maintain the right to rebuild. Mr. Silverstein has tried to persuade the Port Authority that his closely held company is capable of rebuilding while meeting its massive rent payments. The rent is currently being paid from insurance proceeds, draining the amount available for rebuilding.
Larry Silverstein: Jury Rules WTC Destruction Was Two Separate Events - Wall Street Journal 6dec04
http://www.mindfully.org/Reform/2004...-WTC6dec04.htm
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Old Yesterday, 04:27 PM
 
Location: Orange County, CA
1,995 posts, read 1,985,350 times
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Video about 9/11 from someone who is conservative but even he isn't buying the "official narrative":


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfoFQLiRuSQ

Especially love his utter disgust for certain "conservatives" (basically Zionist necon warmongers) like Ben Shapiro and Christian Zionists
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Old Yesterday, 04:31 PM
 
Location: Orange County, CA
1,995 posts, read 1,985,350 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by workingclasshero View Post
Dancing Israelis

the supposed 5 dancing Israelis was those 5 arrested (btw it was proven false that they were jews)


18 years later and idiots are still repeating alex jones garbage
Actually new information was provided by the FBI a few months ago (May 7th):

https://www.mintpressnews.com/newly-...ttacks/258581/
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Old Yesterday, 04:39 PM
 
Location: Coastal New Jersey
57,337 posts, read 55,562,724 times
Reputation: 68318
Quote:
Originally Posted by thelogo View Post
Yes. In an enterview one of them said they were there " to document the event."

More interesting is the fact that Silvestein got a lease of the buildings for $3.2 billions a few weeks before the event, but got $4.6 billions from the insurance afterwards.
What's interesting, but not really, is that you believe that to be true.

How many years of fighting in court did it take for the 11 insurance underwriters to pay anything out when he tried to get it ruled as two separate events because there were two planes? You don't just file a claim and get a check in this type of situation.

The insurance was required in the net lease because of the requirement that Silverstein rebuild in the event of the loss of the asset for any reason. (It was not "terrorist insurance", although some of the CT sites like to say that because it sounds better.) A pretty normal clause. You're trying to make it sound as if he gets to keep the insurance money and spend it however he likes. Tsk tsk. That is dishonest.

You don't even mention the Master Agreement between SPI and the PA for the rebuilding of the site drawn up in 2005 (I think) and then amended later, part of which includes the deal whereby SPI gave up the portion of the insurance money AND the right to rebuild and own One World Trade Center. It's almost as if you don't want people to know about it. Or else you don't know about it yourself.

In the end, the insurance money wasn't even enough to rebuild. We know that, of course, because we know that while he went ahead and built Four World Trade Center relatively quickly once the PA rebuilt the infrastructure below on the site, Three was just completed last year because Silverstein couldn't get financing for years and still can't fill the building, and Two World Trade Center is still on paper and just a an empty spot on the site because he can't get financing for that one.
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Old Yesterday, 04:49 PM
 
Location: Coastal New Jersey
57,337 posts, read 55,562,724 times
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Quote:
For example, the Port Authority of New York & New Jersey is privatizing all of their assets which include the ports at Bayonne, New York and other ports, the airports, train stations and bus terminals and properties, including the World Trade Center and others.
LOL, this caught my eye because it is ludicrous, then I reread the "for example".

Just so people know, The Port Authority did not have a plan to privatize all of their assets. They can't do that. They did lease out the WTC Buildings (but not the property, obviously, since it was built over a train station for a rail system that they own and operate) after years of being prompted to do so because they are not supposed to be in the commercial real estate business. They still are, again obviously, since they own One WTC, but they have a private partner in Durst, and One WTC is actually owned by an entity called One WTC LLC.

However, never were the PA's bridges and tunnels and seaports and airports to be privatized, although private entities do lease and operate and/or maintain terminals at the airports and seaports, for example, as tenants or under contracts, but that is nothing new. That's how such public facilities work. Just to make that clear.
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Old Yesterday, 04:54 PM
 
Location: 15 months till retirement and I can leave the hell hole of New Yakistan
25,611 posts, read 14,253,832 times
Reputation: 6625
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lycanmaster View Post
Video about 9/11 from someone who is conservative but even he isn't buying the "official narrative":


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfoFQLiRuSQ

Especially love his utter disgust for certain "conservatives" (basically Zionist necon warmongers) like Ben Shapiro and Christian Zionists


why dont you explain what the """official narrative""" is...

for me...I PERSONALLY SAW the second plane hit the towers...I personally saw the towers fall....I personally worked the pile to try to find survivors....I personally knew Chief Palmer, who died when the towers fell (he was my running mate in the 00 NYC Marathon)...I personally saw building 7 burning, and heard my brethren say the building is done, it is going to collapse (and this was still in the AM)

a group of terrorists, hijacked 4 planes and crashed them into 3 buildings, and ended up destroying over 16 buildings

you ""posters"" seem to think that it was all made up by the government and the media, and no one died, no planes hit anything....you guys are freaking nuts

Last edited by workingclasshero; Yesterday at 05:04 PM..
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