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View Poll Results: Is Trump's abandonment of the Kurds Betrayal or Smart?
Betrayal 123 63.73%
Smart 39 20.21%
Other 17 8.81%
Undecided 14 7.25%
Voters: 193. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 10-07-2019, 09:29 PM
 
Location: Florida
77,013 posts, read 47,481,489 times
Reputation: 14806

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The big concern is the 12 000 ISIS prisoners who might get away, and join the 30 000 who are already out there. Maybe the Kurds will just release them.

 
Old 10-07-2019, 09:29 PM
 
Location: Montgomery County, PA
16,569 posts, read 15,201,502 times
Reputation: 14589
Quote:
Originally Posted by moneill View Post
So we aren't worried about ISIS regaining territory in Syria? Because aren't we worried about ISIS because they like to kill Americans?
Killing ISIS was a big mistake. All it did was pave the way for Iran to roam around, secure their land bridge to the Mediterranean, expand their militias and begin Lebaonizing Iraq, which they have largely done. Next to removing Saddam, this was our next blunder. Who is taking the credit now for saving Iraq from ISIS? You guessed it, Iran.

Let them fight it out.
 
Old 10-07-2019, 09:31 PM
 
8,489 posts, read 3,308,245 times
Reputation: 6914
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toyman at Jewel Lake View Post
And you think Turkey would turn a bunch of violent Islamic savages loose-why? I have nothing against a handful of well-armed drones loaded with cluster bombs circling over those prisons where ISIS prisoners are kept, and leveling the place if efforts are made to free them. But lets wait for that to happen, rather than dreaming up conspiracy theories to justify sacrificing more American lives.
The NSC official who leaked the Trump - Erdogan call indicated there's substantial concern within the NSC that during the turmoil there can be no nice neat Kurdish handover of ISIS to the Turks. That and the situation reportedly is already destabilizing with new ISIS recruitment. Unfortunately there's no 100% when it comes to ISIS. It feeds on instability.
 
Old 10-07-2019, 09:40 PM
 
Location: SE Asia
16,236 posts, read 5,854,463 times
Reputation: 9117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicano3000X View Post
They'd think twice if the U.S. is there. We wag fingers and if they try anything they'll find out we're no joke. They already know that.

As for wanting a war? No, we don't want one, but we should not be turning our backs on our allies.
Really? Because I seem to remember Somalia not giving a damn that we were there. I remember Vietnam not giving a damn that we were there. I remember Beirut intimately and they didn't give a damn that we were there. Iran? WE are all over the Gulf and they don't give a damn that we are there.
 
Old 10-07-2019, 09:42 PM
 
Location: SE Asia
16,236 posts, read 5,854,463 times
Reputation: 9117
Quote:
Originally Posted by moneill View Post
So we aren't worried about ISIS regaining territory in Syria? Because aren't we worried about ISIS because they like to kill Americans?
Maybe we should have worried about that before Obama made matters worse? ISIS wasn't a big problem in Syria until Obama attacked the government forces and yes, even helped top arm the bad guys.
 
Old 10-07-2019, 09:43 PM
 
Location: Seattle WA, USA
5,693 posts, read 4,882,697 times
Reputation: 4896
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodnight View Post
We wouldn't attack them, it would be sanctions as Trump indicated. Strange that we would put sanctions on a NATO ally.
What do you think those sanctions will do? They will drive Turkey into the hands of Russia and China. Turkey is already a dialogue partner of the SCO. The Turks have felt betrayed for not being accepted into the EU, then the US attempted to over throw the president in a failed military coup in 2016, which Russian intelligence notified Erdoğan about, since then he has been indebted to Russia and the Turks shooting down the Russian fighter jet in 2015 is water under the bridge. Now there relationship is growing closer by the day and the Turks have already bought Russia's s-400 ant-aircraft missile defense system.

The more Turkey will be antagonized the more willing they will be to abandon the west and retreat into the arms of Russia and China, giving Russia the prized possession that they have been fighting for the past 400+ years, access to the Bosporus strait. And if you think that will not happen, well Russia was antagonized during the 2000s causing Putin to reevaluate his commitments to the West and instead has charted a new alliance with China, which not to long ago were also enemies.

Maybe the west doesn't need Turkey anymore and maybe their values don't match ours anymore, but don't be upset when they (the second largest NATO military power) decide to leave NATO for good, now that would definitely be in Russia's interest!
 
Old 10-07-2019, 09:54 PM
 
8,489 posts, read 3,308,245 times
Reputation: 6914
Quote:
Originally Posted by grega94 View Post
What do you think those sanctions will do? They will drive Turkey into the hands of Russia and China. Turkey is already a dialogue partner of the SCO. The Turks have felt betrayed for not being accepted into the EU, then the US attempted to over throw the president in a failed military coup in 2016, which Russian intelligence notified Erdoğan about, since then he has been indebted to Russia and the Turks shooting down the Russian fighter jet in 2015 is water under the bridge. Now there relationship is growing closer by the day and the Turks have already bought Russia's s-400 ant-aircraft missile defense system.

The more Turkey will be antagonized the more willing they will be to abandon the west and retreat into the arms of Russia and China, giving Russia the prized possession that they have been fighting for the past 400+ years, access to the Bosporus strait. And if you think that will not happen, well Russia was antagonized during the 2000s causing Putin to reevaluate his commitments to the West and instead has charted a new alliance with China, which not to long ago were also enemies.

Maybe the west doesn't need Turkey anymore and maybe their values don't match ours anymore, but don't be upset when they (the second largest NATO military power) decide to leave NATO for good, now that would definitely be in Russia's interest!
Does not US world disengagement lead to that outcome? That area of the world - Ukraine - Turkey - Syria. It all falls within the Russian sphere of influence. If Russia wants to be a world power broker while the US no longer does then why not just leave NATO and be done with it? Why employ any intermediate positions? Even one that involves only about 200 US troops in a safe zone?
 
Old 10-07-2019, 09:58 PM
 
9,742 posts, read 4,478,808 times
Reputation: 3981
Quote:
Originally Posted by EveryLady View Post
Does not US world disengagement lead to that outcome? That area of the world - Ukraine - Turkey - Syria. It all falls within the Russian sphere of influence. If Russia wants to be a world power broker while the US no longer does then why not just leave NATO and be done with it? Why employ any intermediate positions? Even one that involves only about 200 US troops in a safe zone?
For that matter why man the Korean border?
 
Old 10-07-2019, 10:11 PM
 
5,722 posts, read 2,180,545 times
Reputation: 3867
Susan Rice is clueless, remember she lied to us about Bengazi and blamed the attack on a YouTube video? She now says Trump is crazy for pulling out troops and that he “just woke up in the wrong side of the bed and did it.” Trump campaigned in this, not being the policeman of the world, getting us out of the hellhole in the Middle East and focusing on AMERICA FIRST. These people still don’t have a clue, this is a major reason Trump is president.

Look at the track record of these people’s successes in the Middle East, you won’t find a single one, yet they have the nerve to tell Trump how he should run things.
 
Old 10-07-2019, 10:13 PM
 
Location: King County, WA
15,733 posts, read 6,443,209 times
Reputation: 13202
It does appear that Trump is doing Putin's bidding in this matter. Having the Turks attack the Kurds effectively eliminates a significant chunk of the resistance that's been fighting Assad. I doubt the US gained anything from Turkey in the process.
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