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And even if she was holding a gun there's zero evidence that she had it pointed at the cop who couldn't even see her hands or whether there was a gun in her hands.
Yes, there's that. But my point is that even if she was holding a gun, she had every right to do so.
Sure it would startle him or anyone, but I don't have any sympathy for him on that regard because he is the one that stupidly set up a deadly situation and then escalated it.
And just for the record, all we know is that she pointed the gun out the window. We don't know if she could see him or if the gun was aimed directly at him or if he even saw the gun.
And none of this overcomes the fact that she had a legal right to have a gun and to shoot someone she only knew as a stranger on her property that she probably thought was trying to break in.
I think the dispatchers need a hard look for firing. Unlike what I previously thought, it seems they didn't tell the officers there was a woman/child in the house and they didn't tell them the house had been open for 4 hours. That last bit imo should have precluded them from operating like a crime was possibly still in process.
And that has been my point the whole time, but the early on keyboard heroes that wanted him lynched up are hopefully realizing.. Once the facts come out and the "we hate the police" mentality subsides, there will be many people and societal issues to blame for this..
These officers showed up to a house just knowing that the front door was open, they likely suspected a crime was being committed inside that house and acted as such.. and next thing the officer knows he has a gun being pointed at him and responded..
What did the dispatcher tell him?? What was their training in these situations? What had they seen or heard when they initially arrived? Had there been recent crimes in that area??
And the officer did resign, which is basically admitting he made mistakes.. but when all the facts come out, I bet we have plenty of blame to dish out in other directions..
So, just to clarify, you don't think cops should do welfare check visits?
OR, cops shouldn't enter private property if they have a reasonable suspicion a crime is being committed there? They should only enter private property at the invitation of the owner or legal renter?
I'm serious in asking.
Are you purposely trying to muddy the waters? It’s already been established that when on wellness check with exigent circumstances, a cop can do those things. However, it doesn’t appear that there were ANY exigent circumstances in this situation.
Unless and until other information comes up, the only conclusion that can be drawn is that the cop acted incorrectly, from start to finish, and it wasn’t legal for him to be prowling around the backyard, shining his light in windows.
And that has been my point the whole time, but the early on keyboard heroes that wanted him lynched up are hopefully realizing.. Once the facts come out and the "we hate the police" mentality subsides, there will be many people and societal issues to blame for this..
These officers showed up to a house just knowing that the front door was open, they likely suspected a crime was being committed inside that house and acted as such.. and next thing the officer knows he has a gun being pointed at him and responded..
What did the dispatcher tell him?? What was their training in these situations? What had they seen or heard when they initially arrived? Had there been recent crimes in that area??
And the officer did resign, which is basically admitting he made mistakes.. but when all the facts come out, I bet we have plenty of blame to dish out in other directions..
Status:
"I don't understand. But I don't care, so it works out."
(set 8 days ago)
35,630 posts, read 17,968,125 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TaxPhd
Are you purposely trying to muddy the waters? It’s already been established that when on wellness check with exigent circumstances, a cop can do those things. However, it doesn’t appear that there were ANY exigent circumstances in this situation.
Unless and until other information comes up, the only conclusion that can be drawn is that the cop acted incorrectly, from start to finish, and it wasn’t legal for him to be prowling around the backyard, shining his light in windows.
i am asking a specific poster that question, because it appears he doesn't think LE should be able to "trespass" on property without the express permission of the homeowner.
Status:
"I don't understand. But I don't care, so it works out."
(set 8 days ago)
35,630 posts, read 17,968,125 times
Reputation: 50654
Quote:
Originally Posted by TaxPhd
I missed where that was established. Got a link?
I don't have a link, but it's in this thread somewhere.
The 8 year old nephew said they heard noises in the backyard, and he wanted to investigate but she wouldn't let him - she herself got the gun from her purse and went to the window to investigate.
So, just to clarify, you don't think cops should do welfare check visits?
I think all security should be private, but given the system in place now; if there is to be such a thing as a "wellness check" govt police should knock on the door and identify themselves, just as you would expect a neighbor, bible salesman, friend, etc.
Just to clarify: you don't think any of the aforementioned groups should be able to walk onto your property with guns drawn and bark commands, do you?
Quote:
OR, cops shouldn't enter private property if they have a reasonable suspicion a crime is being committed there? They should only enter private property at the invitation of the owner or legal renter?
Again security should be private. You sign up with a service, there is a contract with terms and both party's are aware of an obligation to each other. There is accountability and repercussions.
So no, cops shouldn't enter private property without permission. When a cop commits a crime they are usually held blameless or punished at the victims (and everyone elses) expense.
Just so we're clear: you think govt police should be able to do things that you and I cannot do without being punished for them
In this instance specifically; enter without permission, make threats, point guns, commit murder
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