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Old 04-23-2008, 01:45 PM
 
6,542 posts, read 9,038,372 times
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LINK

Here's an substitute for that first link if that article is no longer available.
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Old 04-23-2008, 04:34 PM
 
Location: Your mind
2,923 posts, read 4,565,820 times
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Assuming that the magical claims of sky-high return rates given by the privatization advocates are actually true, I'd be okay with some sort of partial privatization of social security as long as the government still ensures that you get at least as much as you would be getting, up to maybe 4 times the poverty line, without putting your payroll taxes into the private investments. There's no need to introduce social darwinism... if the return rates are so amazingly high then the government shouldn't have to pay out all that much for the people who lose money on their investments anyway, right? That is, assuming all the right-wing "it's so much better" jargon is true, which I can't really judge. To me the right-left aspect of it is mainly whether you remove Social Security's "Security" or not, which I would never support.
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Old 04-23-2008, 05:04 PM
 
Location: Near Manito
19,495 posts, read 20,835,622 times
Reputation: 13756
Maybe if we partially privatized Social Security, but we were restricted to buying Swedish stocks...

I'll take Volvo, Saab, and the Swedish Bikini Team.

http://nupusi.org/swedish_bikini.jpg (broken link)
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Old 04-29-2008, 01:17 PM
 
16 posts, read 66,709 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeledaf View Post
Maybe if we partially privatized Social Security, but we were restricted to buying Swedish stocks...

I'll take Volvo, Saab, and the Swedish Bikini Team.

http://nupusi.org/swedish_bikini.jpg (broken link)
Haha where does everyone get the idea about the Swedish Bikini Team?
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Old 04-29-2008, 03:12 PM
 
Location: Anchorage, Alaska (most of the time)
1,224 posts, read 3,339,236 times
Reputation: 1897
Default Didn't this change 8 years or so ago?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Motion View Post
LINK

Sweden's Pension Reform

Has anyone been keeping up with things in Sweden lately? The country has made several reforms that may surprise some.
Well, yes I have! I read DN yesterday, want to hear the news? The reforms being made right now are surprising to us as well - we elect one right-wing government, and now they're trying to change pretty much everything we have.
Like selling out the governmentally owned businesses, corporations, etc. , despite the Swedish people not wanting them to. Hm...

I don't get it - didn't they change the pension system like 8 years ago or so? Ever since I learnt what the pension system was, this is how I've been taught it works. Not sure if I like it, my mother certainly doesn't. The social democrat that I am, I guess I don't like it, because it's only good for those that have money and know how to place their pension. It's not fair to the "common man" though. Work the same amount of time, get the same pay, but get different pensions. Unfair.
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Old 04-29-2008, 03:16 PM
 
Location: Near Manito
19,495 posts, read 20,835,622 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlotte.Ellinor View Post
Haha where does everyone get the idea about the Swedish Bikini Team?
Why, from our fond imaginations, of course.
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Old 04-29-2008, 03:57 PM
 
646 posts, read 1,658,827 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweden View Post
Well, yes I have! I read DN yesterday, want to hear the news? The reforms being made right now are surprising to us as well - we elect one right-wing government, and now they're trying to change pretty much everything we have.
Like selling out the governmentally owned businesses, corporations, etc. , despite the Swedish people not wanting them to. Hm...

I don't get it - didn't they change the pension system like 8 years ago or so? Ever since I learnt what the pension system was, this is how I've been taught it works. Not sure if I like it, my mother certainly doesn't. The social democrat that I am, I guess I don't like it, because it's only good for those that have money and know how to place their pension. It's not fair to the "common man" though. Work the same amount of time, get the same pay, but get different pensions. Unfair.
I'm not sure if I completely agree. For one thing, the ruling parties did receive most of the votes, so I'm not sure if a majority of Swedes are actually opposed. For the most part, I think privatization of many functions will result in almost everybody being better off with some exceptions.

Yes, the pension system was changed in the late 90s to allow for some individual choice, which I don't think is a bad idea per se. However, there is of course a risk with investing. As the article points out, some funds lost over 75% of the value during the beginning of the reform. I don't really see why it would only be good for people with money, everybody does get a pension and if I'm able to make better investment choices, it's nothing wrong with me getting rewarded for it.

Like many other posters have said, this particular model may be difficult to apply in the US, but I think the idea of having more choice would be beneficial and overall it would result in higher returns. At the same time though, I believe there should be a certain guaranteed income from Social Security similar to what is being done now, but the guaranteed amount would be less and then the rest would be your investments. I think you also have to take into consideration many of the other plans and benefits in the US such as 401k plans and company pensions.
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Old 04-29-2008, 04:03 PM
 
1,572 posts, read 3,678,055 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rggr View Post
Of course, it's easier to do most things with 10 million that 300 million, including cover them with a government-run system. Sweden has shown that they're having problems with that despite full employment, high taxes and a smaller population. What makes you think we can do it with a population of 300 million?
Sweden doesn't have full employment, not even close. Their employment rate is about 8-12 percent usually. This compares roughly the same as the U-6 unemployment rate in the US, which is about 10-11 percent.

Sweden doesn't have everything "socialized", that is a big myth spouted by ignorant people who know nothing about Sweden. Northern European countries tend to have more favorable views of deregulation and less government monopolies (unlike France, Spain, or Italy), but they typicly invest more money into social services. Sweden is a high tax country but the government doesn't run everything. The government does highly regulate many things, however, including pensions. Their pension program isn't a free-for-all for greedy investors and it has safeguard to protect people from the markets. The US presidents plan to privatize social security, on the other hand, was a giveaway to Wall Street without adequate safeguards for the less wealthy, it had a confusing array of options and wasn't simple enough.
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