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Old 04-24-2008, 02:08 PM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,107 posts, read 35,200,007 times
Reputation: 4899

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Quote:
Originally Posted by rlchurch View Post
No you've inferred that I was imposing a ration, I wasn't. Europe does all this with fuel taxes and engine size.
Once again - YOU wrote in #22

Quote:
Originally Posted by rlchurch View Post
We'll allocate to you to average of what the highest gasoline consuming country in Western Europe consumers, per capita.


YOUR words imply support for rationing
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Old 04-24-2008, 02:10 PM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,107 posts, read 35,200,007 times
Reputation: 4899
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rggr View Post
Not without any support behind it.
Also Hydrogen. Volvo is testing now. I saw a documentary on Volvo recently and it showed the President of Volvo Europe driving an S80 that is Hydrogen powered.
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Old 04-24-2008, 02:15 PM
 
Location: Oak Park, IL
5,522 posts, read 12,287,116 times
Reputation: 3827
Quote:
Originally Posted by camping! View Post
Europe is a differnet market all together. Europe (and I apologize for making sweeping generalizations, I know that this may not be true across the board) tends to have much better mass transit systems then the US, European towns tend to be laid out in such a manner that one can get around just fine either by walking or riding a bike (and of course the already mentioned mass transit systems).
The US has none of this. Especially in the oft maligned 'fly over country'. The US as a country is massive compared to any other European country. We have a lot of people spread out over many many miles. Unfortunatly, the scourge of suburban sprawl has spread throughout the land --- but, no use crying over that spilt milk, the question now is what can we do to better the situation? We are not Europe. We will never be Europe. To compare the US gas consumption with Europe is unfair and pointless. A better question to pose is; Given the US is spread out, given that people have to drive long distances for work or school or shopping, given that people like to visit other parts of our country that greyhound or amtrak may not service, given that many towns and cities have negligible mass transit systems....what can we do to improve our situation? Again, you cannot make the US into Europe....what is your solution?
There is no overnight solution. In the short term, those who can't afford the higher gas prices are going to get screwed. In the long term, we can and should support expansion of public transit AND change land-development patterns to a more transit-oriented style of development. Most Americans live in urban and suburban environments which are amenable to improved public transit. Also, we don't have to equal Europe in public transit usage. Even if we increased transit use marginally (say 10-20%), that would make a huge dent in our national consumption of fuel.
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Old 04-24-2008, 02:18 PM
 
Location: Washington DC
5,915 posts, read 7,256,598 times
Reputation: 948
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by rlchurch
No you've inferred that I was imposing a ration, I wasn't. Europe does all this with fuel taxes and engine size.

Once again - YOU wrote in #22


Quote:
Originally Posted by rlchurch
We'll allocate to you to average of what the highest gasoline consuming country in Western Europe consumers, per capita.



YOUR words imply support for rationing
Incorrect inference on your part. I don't favor rationing or price controls.
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Old 04-24-2008, 02:19 PM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,107 posts, read 35,200,007 times
Reputation: 4899
Quote:
Originally Posted by rlchurch View Post
Incorrect inference on your part. I don't favor rationing or price controls.
Your words Bubba - not mine -

YOU said "we'll" allocate .....

Clearly a reference to rationing - and again - YOU said it - you were / are the one arguing for the change - YOU are the one who brought up the 12 gallons

YOU Bubba
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Old 04-24-2008, 02:21 PM
 
Location: Washington DC
5,915 posts, read 7,256,598 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatday View Post
Also Hydrogen. Volvo is testing now. I saw a documentary on Volvo recently and it showed the President of Volvo Europe driving an S80 that is Hydrogen powered.
The infrastructure problems are almost insurmountable. You can't pipeline hydrogen any distance. The molecule is so small it leaks out of any mechanical joint. It's good PR for the car companies to show off a hydrogen car. It's actually pretty easy to build.
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Old 04-24-2008, 02:26 PM
 
Location: Washington DC
5,915 posts, read 7,256,598 times
Reputation: 948
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatday View Post
Your words Bubba - not mine -

YOU said "we'll" allocate .....

Clearly a reference to rationing - and again - YOU said it - you were / are the one arguing for the change - YOU are the one who brought up the 12 gallons

YOU Bubba
Well Jake If allocate meant restrict you might have a point, but it doesn't and you don't.
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Old 04-24-2008, 02:29 PM
 
7,278 posts, read 13,526,501 times
Reputation: 3610
We've actually got the technology to radically reduce fossil fuel consumption without increased nuclear power. Solar and wind energy are drastically more efficient than they used to be. Some info on solar here: Science Friday Archives: Solar Power Scales Up

Essentially, some very smart people are saying that a solar site 100 miles on a side (10,000 sq mi) could power the entire US, including plug-in electric cars.

Now, the main problems there are transport and latency, but these could be augmented through wind power, tidal power, and other renewable resources, as well as a backup system of clean coal and limited nuclear power.

The problem? Once you get past the initial capital expenditures, there's a greatly reduced operating expenditure because you don't have to replenish fuel stocks. You just have to perform maintenance. That's not a problem for the consumer, but is a problem for the fuel companies.

Now, things'd be moving along on this technology at a faster clip if we lived in a true free market. However, fossil fuel companies get subsidies and tax breaks that alternative energy programs don't get. Well, they get some lipservice, but they don't get the same kind of funding traditional sources do.
old
A changing energy landscape will be painful. We might have to give up our old RVs and powerboats. However, we can move towards newer, cleaner RVs and power boats. Doesn't sound too bad to me.
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Old 04-24-2008, 03:36 PM
 
8,180 posts, read 11,287,596 times
Reputation: 2880
Quote:
Originally Posted by sukwoo View Post
There is no overnight solution. In the short term, those who can't afford the higher gas prices are going to get screwed. In the long term, we can and should support expansion of public transit AND change land-development patterns to a more transit-oriented style of development. Most Americans live in urban and suburban environments which are amenable to improved public transit. Also, we don't have to equal Europe in public transit usage. Even if we increased transit use marginally (say 10-20%), that would make a huge dent in our national consumption of fuel.
I certainly wish that would
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Old 04-25-2008, 08:08 AM
 
Location: Willow Spring, North Carolina
473 posts, read 1,595,170 times
Reputation: 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by rlchurch View Post
Gosh I don't know but there are billions (literally) of people who manage not to consume so much. How about a budget. We'll allocate to you to average of what the highest gasoline consuming country in Western Europe consumers, per capita. You then have to find a way to make your budget stretch, like any good homeowner. OK?







Great you get 100 gallons per person --600 gallons per year for your family of six, including your husband's commute. So the two of you get about 12 gallons per week to split. Make the best of it. All of Western Europe does and they don't seem deprived.


WHAT does this have to do with the fact that I drive a larger vehicle in comparison to smaller car? I still need the room in my car to hold my kids. My budget for gas is none of your business. How I spend my money on gas in none of your business and you never once asked me how much I even drive. If you must know, I fill up my tank every 10-12 days. I commute to and from work 3-4 x per week and I combine trips to grocery store in that commute so not to make special trips. Other than we attend Church weekly so that is another regular trip. I have small kids so there is on need for extra sport stuff or anything yet. But if there were, I would have to work on that and make it happen.

You also made a comment about my husband's gas. Gee I am sorry.. you think you know me? Well ya don't. My husband uses a company vehicle and its a crossover style. Its not our CHOICE. His regular car is a pick up that gets used about 1x a month if that for specific needs.

So our budget is fine when it comes to gas and how much we use. I am filling up probably less than most and I am very very very money savvy and try to do my part to help the environment and our resources.

So back to the topic... I drive a larger car that holds more and probably burns more gas per mile but again, I am keeping my kids safe in the car seats that require seat belts and I will not compromise my kids safety by purchasing a smaller car where they will not each have a seatbelt regardless of laws.. its MY law to keep them safe.

If you think that we have to change our lifestyles in order to make this gas issue go away, then you are conforming to another form of terrorism. Keeping us in our homes, limiting our American right to be free.

Do they not have safety laws in Europe? Do they choose which child to leave home on the family trip if the car won't hold them? Unreal !!!

And furthermore, just as sailboat runs on air I coast downhill a lot.

Enough already. Geessh.

L
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