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Old 04-25-2008, 06:53 AM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,492 posts, read 51,385,768 times
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Please remember that Social Security was set up as an insurance system to provide a retirement income (available to pay for food, rent, heat) for people that lost their jobs and all their savings due to bank failures created by an economic collapse.

The folks that think SS is an investment are completely wrong. They also believe that an economic collapse is impossible. They are wrong about this as well.
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Old 04-25-2008, 06:56 AM
 
19,183 posts, read 28,382,298 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW View Post
The folks that think SS is an investment are completely wrong. They also believe that an economic collapse is impossible. They are wrong about this as well.
Yes, they are. But at least there is room for debate of the latter. In the case of the former, there is none.
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Old 04-25-2008, 07:24 AM
 
Location: PA
5,560 posts, read 4,976,980 times
Reputation: 1945
Default Personal rule of thumb

Quote:
Originally Posted by saganista View Post
Personal Rule of Thumb: Don't pay very much attention to those who like to use the phrase "cradle to grave"...

Never believe someone if they say they are from the government and most of all never trust other people with your money. You will find they will mismanage it most times and while you beg to get it back they will have spent it all or promised it to someone else. The belief in "SOCIAL" security is nothing more then socialism. Because the government can control inflation and goes in debt the value of the dollar is worth nothing. So as time goes on your "social security" check will not be worth much. Most people who retire get social security and a penison and or have a 401 K plan. That is why they can retire. Also if you die you get none of it. So please tell me how you can play into a system with no return.
Sounds like a slave to me. The only way to opt out of social security is if your rich or form a corporation. I am neither rich or have a corporation. If I did have a corporation the IRS would hit me with double taxes. You can not OPT of the social security system. Also the IRS will just tax you on that money even if you were able too. I find this system to be corrupt and you are a slave to it.
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Old 04-25-2008, 07:35 AM
 
Location: PA
5,560 posts, read 4,976,980 times
Reputation: 1945
Default Running mate

Quote:
Originally Posted by desertsun41 View Post
This is perpaps the only issue I dont fully, only partly disagree with my running mate for business manager of the USA. After we abolish the political parties, the IRS terrorists and the federal reserve we will have to work on this Social Insecurity thing.

Yes your SS # is your slave number. It will be used to track us from cradle to grave. But yes it also helps those who can not help themselves during and after their working days. Until we Americans learn to save then we need a little forced help.

What were the numbers I read? 60 something percent of all retiring Americans will retire with no money in the bank. None ! If it were not for SS then what will they do? Maybe end up in soup kitchens and shelters?

Tough deal here that I dont claim to have the answers for. I also read about 51% of those polled are relying on winning the lottery to get them through retirement. That is crazy crazy crazy!!!!

I respect your view of the socialist .. opps I mean social security program.
Once the IRS and the FED are removed I think that is good start to controlling the inflation problem. In the ideal world social security would be nice but government appears to have created a system with limited freedom for the individual. You can not opt out or find other solutions for yourself. Because of that I find it to be dependancy without individual freedom and responsiblity. I know many don't know how to save but making a system that doesn't promote saving and punishes people who do save. Example if I save for a 401k plan, or have savings I shouldnt have to pay income tax on the interest that is reason I save. This SS is nothing more then controlling the population and introduces you to a system based on Government bondage.
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Old 04-25-2008, 07:37 AM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,107 posts, read 35,205,885 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LibertyandJusticeforAll View Post
The only way to opt out of social security is if your rich or form a corporation. I am neither rich or have a corporation. If I did have a corporation the IRS would hit me with double taxes. You can not OPT of the social security system.
While not easy, you can "opt" out of the "system". Millions have.
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Old 04-25-2008, 08:13 AM
 
48,516 posts, read 83,943,432 times
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It's just like all the money that goes to farmers and small businesses form the tax payers.In the end tax payers pay for alot of things that business use. Look what happened when houding became a investment for a large population of the people.Even the wise big bankers are looking for a bailout like so many farmers and businesses in the past.
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Old 04-25-2008, 08:44 AM
 
Location: Houston, Texas
10,425 posts, read 44,654,912 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatday View Post
While not easy, you can "opt" out of the "system". Millions have.
Help us out with this. I believe you have no choice but to have your income extorted for Social InSecurity deductions. How do you opt out? Millions have? Millions is a pretty small number when you are talking quadrillions of taxpayers.
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Old 04-25-2008, 08:58 AM
 
Location: PA
5,560 posts, read 4,976,980 times
Reputation: 1945
Default Yes plese show me where

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatday View Post
While not easy, you can "opt" out of the "system". Millions have.

Yes please show me where.. I know if you start a corporation you can. Or if your can provide to the government legal status that your income is very high and you dont need social security. This is legal process an average america can not afford. I dont know any forms to fill out that would allow this to happen. Also to work they require a SS number.
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Old 04-25-2008, 09:02 AM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,107 posts, read 35,205,885 times
Reputation: 4899
Quote:
Originally Posted by LibertyandJusticeforAll View Post
Yes please show me where.. I know if you start a corporation you can. Or if your can provide to the government legal status that your income is very high and you dont need social security. This is legal process an average america can not afford. I dont know any forms to fill out that would allow this to happen. Also to work they require a SS number.
NewMinister.com - 12 Key Legal and Tax Issues

I became a "minister" 3 decades ago and withdrew from the system. It requires the filing of a "CO" status.

I have not paide into the "system" in over 30 years.

And, to "work", you don't necessarily need a SSN - you will need a TIN - taxpayer identification number - which is what I have.
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Old 04-25-2008, 09:03 AM
 
Location: Houston, Texas
10,425 posts, read 44,654,912 times
Reputation: 10382
Quote:
Originally Posted by LibertyandJusticeforAll View Post
I respect your view of the socialist .. opps I mean social security program.
Once the IRS and the FED are removed I think that is good start to controlling the inflation problem. In the ideal world social security would be nice but government appears to have created a system with limited freedom for the individual. You can not opt out or find other solutions for yourself. Because of that I find it to be dependancy without individual freedom and responsiblity. I know many don't know how to save but making a system that doesn't promote saving and punishes people who do save. Example if I save for a 401k plan, or have savings I shouldnt have to pay income tax on the interest that is reason I save. This SS is nothing more then controlling the population and introduces you to a system based on Government bondage.
Yes the Govt created yet another system where we have limited or no freedom.

You can not opt out like Greatday says but why bother when it is less then $25 per average pay check and it does provide something to fall back on in retirement.

It does provide a system that does not encourage saving but not because they tax the interest. In fact for the past 5-8??? years or so they dont even tax interest if it is less then $300. But you are right, interest should NOT be taxed. Neither should lottery winnings or gambling winnings, just like in Canada.

Liberty you know I hate this govt as much as you do, more then the muslims do, and more then Bin Ladin does. And I agree that everything this govt does is to keep their foot on the American people's necks so they can not ever get up and fight back. But I still can not see how SS keeps us down.

Govt should have little to no role in controlling we the peons...oops I keep doing that. I mean we the people. But one role they should be playing is protecting the economy and I shutter to wonder what it would be like when billions of retirees walk out the door of their employment for the last time because they are just physically unable to work another day. I just believe there should be something in place to fix that problem.

Who will take care of them? You can not penalize a person because they were too dumb to save in their younger years. You can not penalize a person for being uneducated and working a life time of low paying jobs with no benifits.

So what's the answer? Mandate an employer sponsered retirement savings plan for ALL employers no matter how big or small? At least it keeps the govt out of it. Then I said "mandate" which puts yet another govt control on us.

Who knows............................................
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