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Old 04-25-2008, 04:46 PM
 
19,183 posts, read 28,320,304 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 11thHour View Post
I'd love to opt out of the entire SS system. I'd rather keep the money I give into it to invest as I see fit. I really despise the whole SS setup to be honest, and resent being forced to pay into it.
This is likely because you both under-estimate the value of Social Security and significantly over-estimate your own capacities as an individual investor.
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Old 04-25-2008, 05:09 PM
 
Location: Houston, Texas
10,425 posts, read 44,553,320 times
Reputation: 10380
Quote:
Originally Posted by saganista View Post
This is likely because you both under-estimate the value of Social Security and significantly over-estimate your own capacities as an individual investor.

Well maybe everyone else is not as money wise as you. I said this before, that dont make them bad and that dont make you great. You just took the time to learn and they did not.

Ok so we all need to learn how to invest more wise. How? From who? Who is going to teach us? School? Nawww they are too busy shoving that useless meaningless crap like Algebra down our throats. Kids today can add letters like it was a mathamatical myth but they walk out those school doors and can't even explain a can opener. They will need investing education for life. They will never in their life need algebra.

Then there is another issue. So few have any money left to stash away after feeding their families and paying the bills. In fact most families make a dollar and spend a dollar ten and they live in poverty. How can they save anything for tomorrow when they have nothing to eat today? Many reading this paragraph have no idea what the working poor do to get by. We here are sitting on a thousand dollar PC while paying $40/m to chat here. There are a whole lot of good decent people who dont have what we have here. I am speaking for them.

SS at least provides a chance to keep the elderly and disabled from living in a cardboard refrigerator box under the Interstate Highway. No American rich or poor, dumb or smart should ever have to live on the streets and should never have to wonder where their next meal is coming from. Ever !
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Old 04-25-2008, 06:59 PM
 
19,183 posts, read 28,320,304 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by desertsun41 View Post
Well maybe everyone else is not as money wise as you. I said this before, that dont make them bad and that dont make you great. You just took the time to learn and they did not.
Wasn't meaning to compare anyone at all to me. Was comparing the typical investor to Social Security, and most will not be able to beat it. Most people simply do not have the time or temperament to become a personal portfolio manager, even though testosterone tells many people that they do. Remember all those people back in the 90's who claimed when you asked them what their job was that they were "day traders"? After a while, their job titles got changed to "loss sufferer" and "debt servicer", and that was during a rising market. As a rule, individual investors are to market-makers what plankton are to a blue whale. You just swim around and swallow them up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by desertsun41 View Post
Ok so we all need to learn how to invest more wise. How? From who? Who is going to teach us? School? Nawww they are too busy shoving that useless meaningless crap like Algebra down our throats. Kids today can add letters like it was a mathamatical myth but they walk out those school doors and can't even explain a can opener. They will need investing education for life. They will never in their life need algebra.
Actually, algebra is extremely valuable, not just in figuring math stuff out, but as a basic methodology for thinking about things in general. Basic finance, I would agree, is a good thing to teach every kid. Maybe we should have Capital One develop a module for it and then test that under NCLB. Or perhaps we should just scrap NCLB altogether so that schools might have the time to put real versions of such courses back into their own curricula.

Quote:
Originally Posted by desertsun41 View Post
Then there is another issue. So few have any money left to stash away after feeding their families and paying the bills. In fact most families make a dollar and spend a dollar ten and they live in poverty. How can they save anything for tomorrow when they have nothing to eat today? Many reading this paragraph have no idea what the working poor do to get by. We here are sitting on a thousand dollar PC while paying $40/m to chat here. There are a whole lot of good decent people who dont have what we have here. I am speaking for them.
I agree pretty much entirely. The working poor (which is by far the majority of them) have a very tough row to hoe, one which the neocons and their fawning followers are only making tougher. Unfortunately, they are also the group that is hardest hit by payroll taxes. While things like the EITC certainly do help, one of the the things that we might want to look at seriously in the post-January world is how to offset that payroll tax burden a little further.

Quote:
Originally Posted by desertsun41 View Post
SS at least provides a chance to keep the elderly and disabled from living in a cardboard refrigerator box under the Interstate Highway. No American rich or poor, dumb or smart should ever have to live on the streets and should never have to wonder where their next meal is coming from. Ever !
Agreed again, and we have company in that. So much so that if SS were to be mistakenly privatized and the expected numbers failed to get anywhere near the levels of security that SS provides, we would indeed dig deep into our income tax paying pockets to get something in terms of basic food and shelter done for people. Wouldn't the Personal Repsonsibility® and Poor Decision Making® people complain about that!
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Old 04-25-2008, 09:51 PM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,107 posts, read 35,124,653 times
Reputation: 4899
Quote:
Originally Posted by saganista View Post
And are you now or have you ever actually been a minister?
Yes - are you taking a poll?

BTW - IRS audited a few times - they approved
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Old 04-25-2008, 09:57 PM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,107 posts, read 35,124,653 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by desertsun41 View Post
You can not opt out like Greatday says
To the Contrary:

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f4361.pdf


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Old 04-25-2008, 11:16 PM
 
Location: AZ
600 posts, read 994,601 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatday View Post
how does that help the average person who doesnt work for a religious organization?
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Old 04-26-2008, 06:16 AM
 
19,183 posts, read 28,320,304 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatday View Post
Yes - are you taking a poll?
No, just wondering whether it isn't a little difficult to minister to the flock when you're holed up all by yourself out there in a mountainous no-man's land forty miles and five gallons of gas away from the nearest grocery store.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatday View Post
BTW - IRS audited a few times - they approved
I'll ask them to let me select the auditor next time. I know a couple through my associations with the ACLU who might be just perfect for the job...
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Old 04-26-2008, 06:19 AM
 
19,183 posts, read 28,320,304 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vanslyke View Post
how does that help the average person who doesnt work for a religious organization?
It doesn't. He just enjoys telling the story...
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Old 04-26-2008, 08:25 AM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,107 posts, read 35,124,653 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saganista View Post
It doesn't. He just enjoys telling the story...
Oh how little you know - and, the other approximately 5 million Americans agree with me

LOLOLOL
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Old 04-26-2008, 08:26 AM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,107 posts, read 35,124,653 times
Reputation: 4899
Quote:
Originally Posted by saganista View Post
No, just wondering whether it isn't a little difficult to minister to the flock when you're holed up all by yourself out there in a mountainous no-man's land forty miles and five gallons of gas away from the nearest grocery store.


I'll ask them to let me select the auditor next time. I know a couple through my associations with the ACLU who might be just perfect for the job...
Much better people than you have tried - and failed -
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