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Old 12-26-2006, 09:45 AM
 
Location: vienna
17 posts, read 117,597 times
Reputation: 23

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What I wanna express with my Questions is actually that I simply cant wont
and never will understand Death Row.

It sorry for my french [mod cut] me up in the worst way.
It pissed me even more off when it came to the decision about
Stanly"Tookie"Williams(Part Former of the notorious Crip-Gang).
That Man wrote Books warning Kids the youth to step into a streetgang.

I saw in the news how Bloods getting interviewed sayin if they let
Tookie alive the Pirus will make sure that they will put their Guns down
and try to give L.A a better reputation and make it to a safer place.


I mean Im not sophisticated and be convinced that everybody would live then in peace and there is no Blood Gang no more but that was a start and a chance for a change.N that dumba-SS governor of Arnold Schwarzenegger,which is unfortunetely Austrian as I am stays more less cold and let him gettin executed, and he died painfully too by the Outflow of his execution.

And I have the feeling since that they the situation just went way worser with the streetgangs for real.It suprised me that their was no riots.

And what was hittin Arnold bad was that in my Hometown you have a big Soccerstadium which is named after him and to days after the Execution they changed the name of the staduim and with a statement of an austrian soccer legend it gave him the rest, he said:Its better they change the name of the stadium,not just for the reputation of austria,but why should we name something after somebody when he is backin up this "2 wrongs make it right" Move,although he is an austrian n he knows that austria is a neutral state.

And since that they on I hate arnold Schwarzenegger as I hate Death Row but I hated Death Row already way befor anyway.

And I dont understand people which are for Death Row.

Its simply dump

And if you try to justify something Bad with anotha Bad Move,
You simply dump to.

Last edited by enlightenme; 12-26-2006 at 01:14 PM.. Reason: Bad language
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Old 12-26-2006, 01:13 PM
 
989 posts, read 5,325,289 times
Reputation: 834
Quote:
Originally Posted by WooPWooP View Post
And since that they on I hate arnold Schwarzenegger as I hate Death Row but I hated Death Row already way befor anyway.

And I dont understand people which are for Death Row.

Its simply dump
Our prisons are overflowing. The costs of keeping each prisoner is tremendous. Our state doesn't even have enough money to fix BASIC THINGS, like freeways, schools, and energy. So, why should state first spend more to protect the lives of those who disregard the lives of others?

What exactly do you suggest California do with it's criminals?

Last edited by newportbeachsmostwanted; 12-26-2006 at 01:21 PM..
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Old 12-26-2006, 03:30 PM
 
Location: Journey's End
10,189 posts, read 24,462,979 times
Reputation: 3826
It's always interesting to hear how others think, and on a board that is predominately American, great to hear from you in Vienna.

However, although I tried twice to understand exactly what you feel is two wrongs, I failed.

Can you sort out your thoughts and explain more. It may be very difficult in English, but I am so curious to hear what inspired you to post this thread.

And, although I am familiar with some of the jurisprudence in EU, primarily the Netherlands, I am totally unfamiliar with Austrian law. If you could share some of that it would help understand your position, perhaps.

Happy holidays.
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Old 12-26-2006, 04:06 PM
 
Location: vienna
17 posts, read 117,597 times
Reputation: 23
well its like this ontheroad....!!!!
Im with my 16years can proudly say that I grew up in
a State where something like Death Row is a strangher,atlist in my Time.
Its like I mean with (does 2 wrongs make it right?) ,that there is a Guy
who committed a crime,lets say homocide,and now he get punished wit the
same action he did like after the motto:Tit for Tat!! I think thats pretty Ignorant,
pretty Gang-Mentality,pure Ignorants.

For us in europe its crazy it gets labeld as criminal to punish somebody like that.I dont know which celebrety it was I think paris Hilton or Britney Spears
and she got asked what she think about Death row and she answered with:Well,I am for Death row because then the inmates learn out of their mistakes and then they wont do it again!!I lost it when I heard that, beside that both of them have a smaller amount of Brain it was like they took it more less like a joke.And i have the feeling its a pretty Middle-Age Style but is accepted by the most americans.
Decision.

And Law Wise I gonna make a reasearch about the laws in austria and then I gonna give you all the informations okay.
But I can tell you that we have no death row, and Happy Holidays to!!!!!!

And newportbeachsmostwanted I frankly Dont give a **** if the prisoners are
overflowing then displace them to another jail.There too much of them let us execute them so the next who come in have place till they get executed to.

Hmmmm.....reminds me a lil on the concentration camp of Adolf Hitler.

The reasons for this kind of a "Decision" are diffrent, but how to solve the problem it is simmiler the same isn´t it?

And I better dont say nothing to the other stuff you said because I dont want to have a US vs. EU fight,with all my respect to you!!!

Last edited by WooPWooP; 12-26-2006 at 04:20 PM..
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Old 12-26-2006, 04:28 PM
 
Location: Journey's End
10,189 posts, read 24,462,979 times
Reputation: 3826
Thanks so much for clarifying your position. I look forward to hearing more about Austria's system. In the Netherlands, you are "guilty" until proven innocent--the opposite of the US. However, the penal law is not as stringent once someone is convicted.

The big catch in the Netherlands is to prevent the crime in the first place by setting into place certain restrictions that discourage the crime. Like identity-theft for example--carrying your ID, usually your passport, is a way to reduce the risk of one person using another's identity.

People often misunderstand the Dutch system, and think Holland is liberal--it is not!!! It (the government in the past) tried to be tolerant and set up legal procedures that would discourage certain crimes and misdemeanors. Of course these days, everyone is having a hard time with their laws, and their lawlessness.

In the US, the population is over 250m, I believe, and each State can have different laws. In Austria, you have one national law. In the US, with that many people, it is likely we will experience more crime, and also it is a heterogeneous country (mixed, diverse) while Austria is nearly homogeneous. In some States, we have this 3 strikes law. If you are convicted a third time, it is very serious, and that includes lesser crimes. With this law in effect, we have many more people incarcerated than before. I believe some of the States, including California, are reconsidering how this has served both the taxpayer and the criminal. I haven't followed it too closely.

I hope I didn't get too complicated. Again, I look forward to hearing from you again and happy holidays.
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Old 12-26-2006, 04:33 PM
 
Location: Heartland Florida
9,324 posts, read 23,230,141 times
Reputation: 4895
Laws need to be changed so that the prison population can be reduced. Putting someone in jail for a drug addiction or theft is just stupid. Rehabilitate, don't just lock away. I bet many prisoners are innocent as well, only the rich get justice.
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Old 12-26-2006, 05:07 PM
 
Location: South Bay, California
1,701 posts, read 5,847,515 times
Reputation: 330
Quote:
Originally Posted by WooPWooP View Post
Stanly"Tookie"Williams(Part Former of the notorious Crip-Gang).
That Man wrote Books warning Kids the youth to step into a streetgang.
Yes, but he also was pending a long-awaited death sentence. Think about it. You also have to remember he killed four people, so that would be four wrongs and one right.
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Old 12-26-2006, 05:29 PM
 
Location: Journey's End
10,189 posts, read 24,462,979 times
Reputation: 3826
I'm trying to remember how I felt when I was 16. Now I'm about 4 times that number

I had to look up Mr. William's criminal record because it isn't a case I would normally follow. If he was rehabilitated, it is a pity he lost his life. I've never really been too impressed with "an eye for an eye" but I suppose sometimes it is the only way to achieve some resolution--but not randomly. Lethal injection is now under heavy scrutiny because of the painful death of an inmate in Florida.

What I do know is that we have an enormous amount of violence in this country. I visited one of NYC's jails and met about 100 or so of the young men incarcerated and talked to them for several hours. I had no sense that they had any remorse for killing and about 30% of them, less than 21 years of age, and some your age, WooPWooP had killed more than once. They all seemed on the surface, friendly and regular, but when the guard took me to the exit, he made it clear that they had serious and severe criminal records. (I was there as a health advocate, btw, not part of the criminal justice system).

It is a societal problem, and it isn't one I have any real clue about solving--I wish I did! I've worked with street gangs, and while once or twice I felt I made some headway, overall I didn't really achieve much
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Old 12-26-2006, 05:34 PM
 
Location: Bothell, Washington
454 posts, read 636,690 times
Reputation: 187
Quote:
Originally Posted by WooPWooP View Post
well its like this ontheroad....!!!!
Im with my 16years can proudly say that I grew up in
a State where something like Death Row is a strangher,atlist in my Time.
Its like I mean with (does 2 wrongs make it right?) ,that there is a Guy
who committed a crime,lets say homocide,and now he get punished wit the
same action he did like after the motto:Tit for Tat!! I think thats pretty Ignorant,
pretty Gang-Mentality,pure Ignorants.

For us in europe its crazy it gets labeld as criminal to punish somebody like that.I dont know which celebrety it was I think paris Hilton or Britney Spears
and she got asked what she think about Death row and she answered with:Well,I am for Death row because then the inmates learn out of their mistakes and then they wont do it again!!I lost it when I heard that, beside that both of them have a smaller amount of Brain it was like they took it more less like a joke.And i have the feeling its a pretty Middle-Age Style but is accepted by the most americans.
Decision.

And Law Wise I gonna make a reasearch about the laws in austria and then I gonna give you all the informations okay.
But I can tell you that we have no death row, and Happy Holidays to!!!!!!

And newportbeachsmostwanted I frankly Dont give a **** if the prisoners are
overflowing then displace them to another jail.There too much of them let us execute them so the next who come in have place till they get executed to.

Hmmmm.....reminds me a lil on the concentration camp of Adolf Hitler.

The reasons for this kind of a "Decision" are diffrent, but how to solve the problem it is simmiler the same isn´t it?

And I better dont say nothing to the other stuff you said because I dont want to have a US vs. EU fight,with all my respect to you!!!
I also do not want a battle regarding this, but if you are truly from Europe, then I hope this helps a bit.

The Supreme court of our country has allowed the independent states to allow the extreme punishment of death in certain cases.

For all states that I know of, the person being executed must have not just killed someone, but this person must have been proven to plan this and kill in a way that most of us could not conceive of. Once convicted, the average death row inmate will spend 12-14 years going though appeals, until there is no other options short of the governor of the state stopping the execution.

We do not take this course lightly, and the number of cases for execution vs. life without parole is probably over 100-1, and the jury must agree unanimously, which is hard to do.

As a citizen of the USA, I do not see the death penalty as a negative, so to think that two wrongs make a right does not compute for me.

If by putting someone away in prison until they die by natural causes is best, then what is the difference between putting them in prison until they die by execution. Either way this person has no freedom, no future, no hope, and in the end, dies. It can be said that to leave a person in this hopeless condition for 50-70 years is more cruel then executing them.

It is a sad fact that in both of our countries, there are very evil people who, no matter what you do with them will do nothing but hurt and kill other people. All of the rest of us normal folks cannot conceive of this, but it is a fact.

PS. PLEASE stop listening to anything said by Paris Hilton, Britney Spears or any of those other airheads. They get rich off of saying stupid things, and for the most part, any person in the US who is over 15 years old pretty well ignores anything that comes out of their mouths.
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Old 12-26-2006, 06:03 PM
 
Location: South Bay, California
1,701 posts, read 5,847,515 times
Reputation: 330
Quote:
Originally Posted by ontheroad View Post
I'm trying to remember how I felt when I was 16. Now I'm about 4 times that number

I had to look up Mr. William's criminal record because it isn't a case I would normally follow. If he was rehabilitated, it is a pity he lost his life. I've never really been too impressed with "an eye for an eye" but I suppose sometimes it is the only way to achieve some resolution--but not randomly. Lethal injection is now under heavy scrutiny because of the painful death of an inmate in Florida.

What I do know is that we have an enormous amount of violence in this country. I visited one of NYC's jails and met about 100 or so of the young men incarcerated and talked to them for several hours. I had no sense that they had any remorse for killing and about 30% of them, less than 21 years of age, and some your age, WooPWooP had killed more than once. They all seemed on the surface, friendly and regular, but when the guard took me to the exit, he made it clear that they had serious and severe criminal records. (I was there as a health advocate, btw, not part of the criminal justice system).

It is a societal problem, and it isn't one I have any real clue about solving--I wish I did! I've worked with street gangs, and while once or twice I felt I made some headway, overall I didn't really achieve much
Don't forget he was the founder of the notorious crypt gang that has led to the destruction of many young African-American youths lives. But, very good points you made.
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