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Old 04-30-2008, 10:25 AM
 
Location: Tennessee
34,682 posts, read 33,681,492 times
Reputation: 51877

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicago60614 View Post
Here's a chart I found of average days per year of vacation (not including holidays):

Italy 42 days
France 37 days
Germany 35 days
Brazil 34 days
United Kingdom 28 days
Canada 26 days
Korea 25 days
Japan 25 days
U.S. 13 days


We had a girl come from Europe and transfer to our Chicago office, since her husband was here for school and at least she could have a job waiting for her. She was talking about being in total shock at the lack of vacation days in the United States. She said every entry level person she knows in Belgium gets at least 35 days a year of vacation, and they make you take all of it every year.

She was also very confused about what "sick days" are in the United States. She had never even heard the term in Europe. She said in Europe if you're sick or have a doctor appointment, you just tell your boss and don't come into work. The fact we have to keep track of that here, and build up "sick days" seems very "backwards".

I also felt bad for her trying to fill out health insurance. I was kinda embarassed, she just looked at me like "what kind of country is this!?". She'd never heard of Health Insurance either, since in most every developed country in the world, any and all health care coverage, perscriptions, dental, vision, etc. etc. is 100% paid for by the government, or at least a very cheap 1 time payment per visit. For example, I think any perscription in the UK, regardless of how much it would cost in the United States, is a flat rate of around $10 dollars (US, cheaper there cause of the exchange rate).
And where do you think the government gets the money to pay for health care? You, that's who. What I don't understand is why you would want the government to manage health care when they aren't particularly effective at managing anything else.
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Old 04-30-2008, 10:28 AM
 
Location: Virginia
654 posts, read 1,100,725 times
Reputation: 342
Quote:
Originally Posted by What! View Post
LMAO!

You make a great point. These libertarians kill me with this, "Government shouldn't interfere with business" garbage. Why do they think these businesses are allowed to exist? Because of the freaking government! If they don't like government so much then why don't they live in Somalia? They can live there and have fun and see what it is like to run a business w/o being regulated by a government at all. Now that is true freedom!
Business exists because of the government???
That is one of the most ignorant statements I've ever heard.

Businesses exist because they fulfill a want or need, not because the government 'allows' them too.
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Old 04-30-2008, 10:35 AM
 
769 posts, read 2,011,043 times
Reputation: 407
Quote:
Originally Posted by fp1978 View Post
Business exists because of the government???
That is one of the most ignorant statements I've ever heard.

Businesses exist because they fulfill a want or need, not because the government 'allows' them too.
I think I said my statement wrong. I am sorry. But, in all honesty, government should have the right to regulate how health issues work places of employment because businesses could do them wrong.
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Old 04-30-2008, 10:53 AM
 
769 posts, read 2,011,043 times
Reputation: 407
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike0421 View Post
I have a solution, then. Go into business for yourself. Start your own company and don't rely on a company determining your destiny, if that's the way you feel.
Great post, genius! Did you think of that all by yourself or did you take the words out of my mouth? *shake my head at these simpletons on this board*

Anyway, I came back into this thread to basically say that AMERICA IS NOT EUROPE! People really need to stop comparing America to Europe because, quite honestly, America gives its citizens more opportunities to create your own way of life than Europe. In Europe, because the social lines of the lower class, middle class, and upper class are so tight it is very hard to move upward. And, once you fall from bein rich it is very hard to get back on top unless you have connections. In America, sure, it is good to know people, but it isn't necessary. You can become rich by your own hard work and self-mobilization rather than relying on the government to help you. The class lines are so blurred that you move up and down quite easily.

Another thing, European governments gave their citizens all those social rights like health care and sick days not because they are benevolent and love their poor more than America, but because they are afraid of the masses uprising. Europe is the continent with the most revolutions and uprisings than any other continent, even more than Africa and South America combined! No joke! Facism, socialism, anarchism, socialism, and all those other political beliefs all started in Europe based on the fact that the average European has little opportunity to better himself socially. And all these political beliefs are still popular in Europe because that is the same today. Think about it. Facism and socialism took over European countries less than a century ago, and the possibility of it happening again is very real today. That is the part of Europe that they don't tell you. In America, Facism and etcetera haven't taken big holds because the masses have greater opportunities for advancement in just about all aspect of our social lives.

Also, has anyone ever been to Brussels, the capital of Belgium? It is boring. Most people who visit there agree that you could easily see the city in half a day. How about Switzerland? That entire country is boring. Google "switzerland is boring" or "brussels is boring" and you'll see websites with people talking about how boring places in Europe are. Why would I want to move over there, get 35 days off a year just to see a boring city? Yawn.

Sorry, I had to be so long, but, once again, America is not Europe--AND THANK GOD!
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Old 04-30-2008, 11:44 AM
 
Location: Blankity-blank!
11,449 posts, read 14,311,063 times
Reputation: 6904
Quote:
Originally Posted by What! View Post
Great post, genius! Did you think of that all by yourself or did you take the words out of my mouth? *shake my head at these simpletons on this board*

Anyway, I came back into this thread to basically say that AMERICA IS NOT EUROPE! People really need to stop comparing America to Europe because, quite honestly, America gives its citizens more opportunities to create your own way of life than Europe. In Europe, because the social lines of the lower class, middle class, and upper class are so tight it is very hard to move upward. And, once you fall from bein rich it is very hard to get back on top unless you have connections. In America, sure, it is good to know people, but it isn't necessary. You can become rich by your own hard work and self-mobilization rather than relying on the government to help you. The class lines are so blurred that you move up and down quite easily.

Another thing, European governments gave their citizens all those social rights like health care and sick days not because they are benevolent and love their poor more than America, but because they are afraid of the masses uprising. Europe is the continent with the most revolutions and uprisings than any other continent, even more than Africa and South America combined! No joke! Facism, socialism, anarchism, socialism, and all those other political beliefs all started in Europe based on the fact that the average European has little opportunity to better himself socially. And all these political beliefs are still popular in Europe because that is the same today. Think about it. Facism and socialism took over European countries less than a century ago, and the possibility of it happening again is very real today. That is the part of Europe that they don't tell you. In America, Facism and etcetera haven't taken big holds because the masses have greater opportunities for advancement in just about all aspect of our social lives.

Also, has anyone ever been to Brussels, the capital of Belgium? It is boring. Most people who visit there agree that you could easily see the city in half a day. How about Switzerland? That entire country is boring. Google "switzerland is boring" or "brussels is boring" and you'll see websites with people talking about how boring places in Europe are. Why would I want to move over there, get 35 days off a year just to see a boring city? Yawn.

Sorry, I had to be so long, but, once again, America is not Europe--AND THANK GOD!
Doesn't sound as though you've been to Europe. Your post about facism, socialism, etc seems like a lot of speculation.
As for boring, or exciting, that is relative to the individual. It all depends on what you consider as boring.
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Old 04-30-2008, 02:55 PM
 
Location: The Big D
14,874 posts, read 37,253,110 times
Reputation: 5787
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpg35223 View Post
An excellent point. If you don't want to be a wage monkey, be an entrepreneur. If I want to take time off, I take time off.
I do hope you are being sarcastic w/ this comment. If not then I'm going to laugh my butt off at it just as I do whenever I hear anyone else say this.

Most and I mean the MAJORITY of the people in this country do NOT have the guts, determination, brawn, work ethic, dedication, selflessness that it takes to start a business and get it going strong and off the ground. Then IF they are able to get to that point they are too blindsided to know they STILL need to keep a watchfull eye on the bottom line and where the money is going and coming from. Too many business owners have lost their shirts and had to close up shop because they lost touch and "trusted" someone else to handle all of the financial affairs of the business.

Being a business owner does NOT give one automatic PAID vacations whenever they want. ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It is the EXACT opposite. When the employees are out "sick" or on vacation in many cases it is still up to the boss to fill in and get their hands dirty. As a business owner we have put in more time, blood, sweat, tears and money than ANY employee will EVER do. It takes EVERYONE to get the job done and make sure the customers are taken care of. Oh, and there is that OTHER group of people that don't give a rats behind if you the business "owner" is on vacation or out sick. If they have a problem they want you NOW! You better be able to suck up being sick if one ever decides to run a business as they don't care. Their business is not shutting down because you can't provide them w/ the goods/services they buy from you. If your not there to take care of them they will find someone else. As a matter of fact one of the main reasons why our company has been so blessed is because we take care of our customers. We haven't gotten so big we have forgotten who pays US - the customers. We get new customers just about daily because the bigger businesses don't care and they need someone that does and will take care of them. We are there when they call.

Time off whenever you please by simply being the "business owner". I WISH!
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Old 04-30-2008, 07:26 PM
 
98 posts, read 283,287 times
Reputation: 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by gildossantos View Post
The US are


Besides getting less vacation than workers in many other countries, Americans often don't use all the time that they do get, and what vacation they take is spent in small slices and often in contact with the office, according to findings from studies.

What about you?

1- what's your job?
2- how many paid vacation days do you have?
3- do you use your vacation days or not? why?
4- do you stay in contact with the office while on vacation?
5- would you agree with a federal law mandating that companies pay employees for time off or that they grant them a minimum amount of vacation days?
6- if your boss asked you to choose : pay raise or more paid vacation days, what would you choose?

Thanks for countribution?
1. Accounting Manager for a Bank
2. 4 Weeks paid vacation, 2 weeks of sick time, 3 personal days, and all US holidays.
3. Yes, otherwise I lose them
4. Yes, because I need to sometimes. However I have to take a mandatory 2 weeks in a row and can't have contact with the office.
5. Pay employees for their time off.
6. Pay raise, because everything is getting so blasted expensive that what good would more vacation do if I can't enjoy it with money.
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Old 04-30-2008, 07:53 PM
 
5,772 posts, read 13,726,416 times
Reputation: 4583
fruitlassie:

Even unemployed people collecting "arbeitslosengeld" are allowed a certain number of vacation days per year!

That's ridiculous. Definitely don't need it here. I mean, geez, if they're unemployed, unless they're bilking the system by working under the table aren't they on vacation every day?

-----------------------------------------------------------------
fruitlassie:

I could go on and on...at the same time, there are many things I miss about the US, things which are clearly superior there than here. If the US ever changed its attitudes about vacation policies (and health insurance, and supporting useable, efficient public transportation...), I might be more tempted to move back permanently.

Right. Along the lines of What's post, the U.S. is the U.S. and Europe is Europe. I can't help but have a sneaking suspicion that you can't have it both ways. If the U.S. were to become more like Europe, it would become more like Europe in many ways, and lose many of its own positive features. If you like the way things are in Europe, go there. I'll take the U.S. basically the way it is.
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Old 05-01-2008, 04:12 AM
 
1,817 posts, read 2,758,652 times
Reputation: 3527
[quote=ogre;3629501]fruitlassie:

Even unemployed people collecting "arbeitslosengeld" are allowed a certain number of vacation days per year!

That's ridiculous. Definitely don't need it here. I mean, geez, if they're unemployed, unless they're bilking the system by working under the table aren't they on vacation every day?

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Well, if you are unemployed you're still meant to be looking for work, and you are responsible to report to the employment office at short notice if any job opportunities arise. But yes, you're still allowed up to 3 weeks of annual vacation assuming you stay jobless for that long. You can also get reimbursed if you travel abroad to look for work. I don't have first hand experience with any of this, so I'm not 100% sure on all the details. But I do know that these benefits are only available to those who have been paying into the system for at least 5 years; unemployment insurance is already taken out of your pay, so it isn't entirely a free ride.
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Old 05-01-2008, 04:42 AM
 
1,817 posts, read 2,758,652 times
Reputation: 3527
Quote:
Originally Posted by What! View Post

Anyway, I came back into this thread to basically say that AMERICA IS NOT EUROPE! People really need to stop comparing America to Europe because, quite honestly, America gives its citizens more opportunities to create your own way of life than Europe. In Europe, because the social lines of the lower class, middle class, and upper class are so tight it is very hard to move upward. And, once you fall from bein rich it is very hard to get back on top unless you have connections. In America, sure, it is good to know people, but it isn't necessary. You can become rich by your own hard work and self-mobilization rather than relying on the government to help you. The class lines are so blurred that you move up and down quite easily.

Another thing, European governments gave their citizens all those social rights like health care and sick days not because they are benevolent and love their poor more than America, but because they are afraid of the masses uprising. Europe is the continent with the most revolutions and uprisings than any other continent, even more than Africa and South America combined! No joke! Facism, socialism, anarchism, socialism, and all those other political beliefs all started in Europe based on the fact that the average European has little opportunity to better himself socially. And all these political beliefs are still popular in Europe because that is the same today. Think about it. Facism and socialism took over European countries less than a century ago, and the possibility of it happening again is very real today. That is the part of Europe that they don't tell you. In America, Facism and etcetera haven't taken big holds because the masses have greater opportunities for advancement in just about all aspect of our social lives.

Also, has anyone ever been to Brussels, the capital of Belgium? It is boring. Most people who visit there agree that you could easily see the city in half a day. How about Switzerland? That entire country is boring. Google "switzerland is boring" or "brussels is boring" and you'll see websites with people talking about how boring places in Europe are. Why would I want to move over there, get 35 days off a year just to see a boring city? Yawn.

Sorry, I had to be so long, but, once again, America is not Europe--AND THANK GOD!
The only factual point in your post is that "America is not Europe," the rest is just sweeping generalizations mostly based on nonsense. Europe is comprised of dozens of countries and cultures. They do not all consist of rigid classes with no upward mobility. There may be some semblance of that in places like the UK or France, but I don't find this to be true at all in Germany. I also think you are blind if you don't believe there are class issues in America. Do you think people who grow up in ghettoes, with awful schools, violence all around, etc. or in depressed rural areas seriously have the same opportunities in life as private school educated trust fund babies from the Northeast?

As for Europe being "boring," I grew up in Nebraska so don't even TRY to tell me Europe is more boring than that. Brussells is not one of the more beloved European cities, for sure, but there is a lot of history there and great food, chocolate and beer! I've never been to Switzerland, I've heard it's not an exciting place to live, but how boring can the ALPS be unless you truly hate nature?! Berlin where I live now is one of the most vibrant, creative cities anywhere, and there are tons of expats here from places like NYC and San Francisco--lots of artists, writers and musicians who can't afford to live in their own country any more. Rome, London, Prague, Barcelona, Paris, Amsterdam...they may be many things, good and bad, but "boring" they are not!

I don't think that the US has to try to copy the European way of life, but I think it takes a special kind of stubborn arrogance to refuse to consider concepts just because "US is not Europe". It isn't just Europe that grants workers more time off than the US, it's virtually every industrialized country (even Japan!!!). And I am reasonably sure that none of the workers in those countries are complaining that they get TOO MUCH time off.

Last edited by fruitlassie; 05-01-2008 at 06:10 AM..
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