debate : The US, a no vacation nation (fence, military, insurance)
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The only factual point in your post is that "America is not Europe," the rest is just sweeping generalizations mostly based on nonsense. Europe is comprised of dozens of countries and cultures. They do not all consist of rigid classes with no upward mobility. There may be some semblance of that in places like the UK or France, but I don't find this to be true at all in Germany. I also think you are blind if you don't believe there are class issues in America. Do you think people who grow up in ghettoes, with awful schools, violence all around, etc. or in depressed rural areas seriously have the same opportunities in life as private school educated trust fund babies from the Northeast?
As for Europe being "boring," I grew up in Nebraska so don't even TRY to tell me Europe is more boring than that. Brussells is not one of the more beloved European cities, for sure, but there is a lot of history there and great food, chocolate and beer! I've never been to Switzerland, I've heard it's not an exciting place to live, but how boring can the ALPS be unless you truly hate nature?! Berlin where I live now is one of the most vibrant, creative cities anywhere, and there are tons of expats here from places like NYC and San Francisco--lots of artists, writers and musicians who can't afford to live in their own country any more. Rome, London, Prague, Barcelona, Paris, Amsterdam...they may be many things, good and bad, but "boring" they are not!
I don't think that the US has to try to copy the European way of life, but I think it takes a special kind of stubborn arrogance to refuse to consider concepts just because "US is not Europe". It isn't just Europe that grants workers more time off than the US, it's virtually every industrialized country (even Japan!!!). And I am reasonably sure that none of the workers in those countries are complaining that they get TOO MUCH time off.
YES! I have met many, many people who have grown up in ghettos and violent schools who are doing great for themselves. I have met people in Detroit, Memphis, Kansas City, Rochester, NY, New York City, and tons of other places who have and are, at this very moment, making lives better for themselves. They make good in business, teaching, entertainment, sports, and even politics, just to name a few. It has happened and it definitely continues to happen. As far as Germany not having social issues, then why do they still have barons and other noblemen strutting around Germany? Some of them are still in the government, being a big part in the system.
Even in Nebraska you can find great food, chocolate, and beer. DO you think Belgium is the only place that has these things? Also, if you are bored with Nebraska, you can drive over to another interesting city like Chicago, Milwaukee, Kansas City, Denver, or Minneapolis, all within a few hours, and without leaving your country. If you're bored in Belgium and wanna see something new you have to leave the country. And the Alps may be nice, but how many times can you go skiing. Plus, you missed my point. In about every European country there is only one interesting city: U.K. has London--and nothing much else; Netherlands has Amsterdam--and nothing much else; Italy has a few cities, as does Germany; Czech Republic only has Prague; and SPain has what, just Barcelona and some other city that is worth seeing.
And lastly, I once quit a job and got all the vacation time I wanted to. I went on a roadtrip with another unemployed buddy and saw the sights and sounds of as much of America as I could. This country is huge and always changing. There are many interesting places to see and people to meet with a variety of things to do. If I had a century to just roadtrip across America I wouldn't be able to see the sights and sounds completely because the people are changing and the atmosphere is always different. If I roadtripped across Belgium I'd be done in a week, the same goes for Japan, Austria, Czech Republic, and a lot of industrialized countries, maybe some other countries would take a few months but that's not much compared to America. Try roadtripping across Germany on one of your month-long time offs and see how fascinating it is.
As an European, I can tell What (a contributor) sees the things exactly as they are.
Here in Paris there is not a day (I didn't say not a week or not a month, no, it is an EVERYDAY occurence...save during vacations! [lol]) without a demonstration, blue-collar workers, taxi drivers, nurses, teachers, students, firemen (!),railway union members, solicitors,pharmacists, and so on, and so forth! they all want from the Government all sorts of privileges, they call it "their part of the cake", problem is, there is no cake anymore .
Try suppress vacations! it would be a giant upheaval!
1- what's your job? Navy Contractor
2- how many paid vacation days do you have? Currently 2 weeks. Next year, I'll start getting 4 weeks. I also get 40 hours of "personal time" to be used however/whatever/how much as I want. Also get all Federal Holidays (10) off
3- do you use your vacation days or not? why? Yes. Our contract says that we mustn't go over 1880 hours worked. Which means a minimum of 80 hours of vacation, 40 hours of personal, and 80 hours for federal holiday must be taken.
4- do you stay in contact with the office while on vacation? I'm the only person at our company capable of doing certain things... so I do
5- would you agree with a federal law mandating that companies pay employees for time off or that they grant them a minimum amount of vacation days? I'm still iffy on it.
6- if your boss asked you to choose : pay raise or more paid vacation days, what would you choose? I'd choose the pay raise. Our contract determines vacation days... so it's not like he could offer more anyways!
Besides getting less vacation than workers in many other countries, Americans often don't use all the time that they do get, and what vacation they take is spent in small slices and often in contact with the office, according to findings from studies.
What about you?
1- what's your job?
2- how many paid vacation days do you have?
3- do you use your vacation days or not? why?
4- do you stay in contact with the office while on vacation?
5- would you agree with a federal law mandating that companies pay employees for time off or that they grant them a minimum amount of vacation days?
6- if your boss asked you to choose : pay raise or more paid vacation days, what would you choose?
Thanks for countribution?
Shut up and get back to work!!.
Seriously though
1-self employed
2-whenever I want one
3-never
4-no, only employee, I shut the company down
5-no more government regulations
6-since I havent had a day off in 4 years.. I'll take a few vacation days.
Besides getting less vacation than workers in many other countries, Americans often don't use all the time that they do get, and what vacation they take is spent in small slices and often in contact with the office, according to findings from studies.
What about you?
1- what's your job?
2- how many paid vacation days do you have?
3- do you use your vacation days or not? why?
4- do you stay in contact with the office while on vacation?
5- would you agree with a federal law mandating that companies pay employees for time off or that they grant them a minimum amount of vacation days?
6- if your boss asked you to choose : pay raise or more paid vacation days, what would you choose?
Thanks for countribution?
1. Software Engineer
2. 2 weeks vacation, 1 week personal time
3. Always use them
4. No
5. No
6. More pay
my last employement I had earned 3 weeks vacation.But after bills I had nothing left so I stayed home for vacations.
Now I moved away and sold my house,have some money to have fun and less bills now,but since I'm a newbie at my new employment I will have 1 week after a year.So now I can afford to go on a real vacation but can't anyway.
Others in different countries live with less,and would rather have more family and free time.In South America alot of people don't want or have cars,cell phones and all the goodies material stuff American's have but they live a more basic and in their view happier life.
Retire to South America and live like they do with your American money and you'll have a carefree retirement but if you want all the gadgets and nice things you'll go broke over there too.
YES! I have met many, many people who have grown up in ghettos and violent schools who are doing great for themselves. I have met people in Detroit, Memphis, Kansas City, Rochester, NY, New York City, and tons of other places who have and are, at this very moment, making lives better for themselves. They make good in business, teaching, entertainment, sports, and even politics, just to name a few. It has happened and it definitely continues to happen. As far as Germany not having social issues, then why do they still have barons and other noblemen strutting around Germany? Some of them are still in the government, being a big part in the system.
Even in Nebraska you can find great food, chocolate, and beer. DO you think Belgium is the only place that has these things? Also, if you are bored with Nebraska, you can drive over to another interesting city like Chicago, Milwaukee, Kansas City, Denver, or Minneapolis, all within a few hours, and without leaving your country. If you're bored in Belgium and wanna see something new you have to leave the country. And the Alps may be nice, but how many times can you go skiing. Plus, you missed my point. In about every European country there is only one interesting city: U.K. has London--and nothing much else; Netherlands has Amsterdam--and nothing much else; Italy has a few cities, as does Germany; Czech Republic only has Prague; and SPain has what, just Barcelona and some other city that is worth seeing.
And lastly, I once quit a job and got all the vacation time I wanted to. I went on a roadtrip with another unemployed buddy and saw the sights and sounds of as much of America as I could. This country is huge and always changing. There are many interesting places to see and people to meet with a variety of things to do. If I had a century to just roadtrip across America I wouldn't be able to see the sights and sounds completely because the people are changing and the atmosphere is always different. If I roadtripped across Belgium I'd be done in a week, the same goes for Japan, Austria, Czech Republic, and a lot of industrialized countries, maybe some other countries would take a few months but that's not much compared to America. Try roadtripping across Germany on one of your month-long time offs and see how fascinating it is.
"Barons and noblemen strutting around"? I've never seen or heard of such a thing. If you're talking about aristocratic titles, they don't mean #^$_!~ here anymore. (every European country is different! Some countries might pretend aristocracy still matters, Germany does not.), Some people might still call themselves "Count Whatever" thinking it might impress someone, but seriously, nobody cares. Yes, classism exists here and it also exists in the US, in different forms. Just because some Americans manage to make it out of poverty does not mean they are the majority, nor does it erase the fact that there is a huge, and still growing, gap between rich and poor. There are certainly opportunities for advancement over here as well, and I know plenty of businesspeople who started from nothing and have done well for themselves.
Re: "driving to interesting cities from Nebraska..." Are you joking? It takes a minimum of 3 hours to drive to KC (NOT INTERESTING WHATSOEVER), several more to get to those other cities and there is barely any cultural difference between Omaha and any of the others you name, except Chicago. If you travel 3 hours from Brussels you can reach Paris, Amsterdam, the UK...why is it a negative in your eyes that they are in different countries? This is the EU, there's no border checks or anything like that. If your point is that bigger is better, and America "beats" all those European countries because it is many times larger, and has more cities it can call its own than any of those smaller nations, all I can say is...so what. Really. Each of those European countries have dozens, if not hundreds, of interesting towns and cities, but you are so America-centric and closeminded I doubt you're interested in hearing about them.
Yes, America is a great place to take a roadtrip, with a lot of variety and beauty. When I visit my family in the US (using my several weeks of paid vacation ) I try to see as much as I can, and appreciate it from a different perspective now. Just because I disagree with people who think America is THE GREATEST at everything, and that the economy would fall apart if workers got something they are entitled to in every other industrialized country, doesn't mean I hate the place. I don't like every single aspect of ANY country. If a perfect land existed I guess this forum would be a lot quieter.
Last edited by fruitlassie; 05-01-2008 at 11:15 AM..
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Berlin where I live now is one of the most vibrant, creative cities anywhere, and there are tons of expats here from places like NYC and San Francisco--lots of artists, writers and musicians who can't afford to live in their own country any more. Rome, London, Prague, Barcelona, Paris, Amsterdam...they may be many things, good and bad, but "boring" they are not! 
It isn't just Europe that grants workers more time off than the US, it's virtually every industrialized country (even Japan!!!). And I am reasonably sure that none of the workers in those countries are complaining that they get TOO MUCH time off.
What is absolutely right
As an European, I can tell What (a contributor) sees the things exactly as they are.
) I try to see as much as I can, and appreciate it from a different perspective now. Just because I disagree with people who think America is THE GREATEST at everything, and that the economy would fall apart if workers got something they are entitled to in every other industrialized country, doesn't mean I hate the place. I don't like every single aspect of ANY country. If a perfect land existed I guess this forum would be a lot quieter.
