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Old 05-03-2008, 07:40 PM
 
Location: Raleigh, NC
9,043 posts, read 11,579,603 times
Reputation: 1392

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatday View Post
No, it does mean we are awash with gas / oil. We are meeting current demands. Not the same thing.

If the supply of oil and refined crude exceeded the demand, the price will come down.

When we seriously exceed demand with supply, then I would agree with the term "awash"

Until then, I won't.
We are awash relative to standard human needs. If people want to drive hundreds of miles a week to commute, that's not my problem. Ther is no real need to increase supply considering that $4/gal is very inexpensive.

There is simply not enough supply. Tar sands require inordinate amounts of potable water that just isn't there and produces low quality oil. The Saudi fields have all but peaked (although data is somewhat opaque).

You just believe gas isn't cheap because it doesn't fit the term based on your needs. If I wanted to drive to Pluto, then gas would be outrageously expensive. Relative to the amount of utility you get out of oil, it is indeed dirt cheap. Once you can name me any energy source that is cheaper than oil for what you get out of it, I will agree with your claim that it isn't dirt cheap.
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Old 05-03-2008, 07:42 PM
 
Location: Raleigh, NC
9,043 posts, read 11,579,603 times
Reputation: 1392
Quote:
Originally Posted by saganista View Post
When in doubt, always quote some internet financial guru-wannabe. Part of the Fed's job is to monitor and influence the money supply. At the moment, we as an economy have suffered a loss of liquidity with dire consequences for the credit markets upon which nearly every business and household is critically dependent. Not a bad time to take steps that increase liquidity, would you say?
Hehe...a Fed apologist. Wow, I thought they all but disappeared.

Investment banks have been going out of business since the beginning of time. There's nothing special about now. You're just listening to Paulson and the other yes men.

Yeah, I guess billionaire Jim Rogers has it wrong when he says Ben Bernanke is insane.

Liquidity = inflation. Robbing elderly peoples' savings and its respective purchasing power for Bear Stearns. uber conservative Dr. Savage didn't call them the pirates of Wall Street who would sell their own mother's oxygen tank for nothing.
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Old 05-03-2008, 07:42 PM
 
955 posts, read 1,952,722 times
Reputation: 401
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevK View Post
That said, if you cons have ideas about drilling off the coast of Florida or Georgia, you had better start trading in your pickups for Toyotas or Hybrids because it ain't gonna happen! There are millions of people that live along these coast and millions of more of us that go to the beaches there often and if you think for even a second that we would stand by and watch an oil well being built there, you have another thought coming! It AIN'T gonna happen!
Our idea of a weekend at the beach does not include swimming in an oil slick or watching dead birds roll up on the beach. Somebody pass that message on to Hannity please!
Let's take a look at this from another perspective, equally as unwavering:

That said, if you ... have ideas about building wind farms off the coast of Florida or Georgia, you had better start trading your electric vehicles for bicycles because it ain't gonna happen! There are millions of people that live along these coasts and millions more of us that go to beaches there often and if you think for even a second that we would stand by and watch a wind farm built there, you have another thought comming! It ain't gonna happen!

Our idea at the beach does not include swimming in a decaying mass of bird carcases (The Audabon Society says that windmills kill more birds of prey than all oil slicks put together - look it up) or watching the carcases roll up on the beach. Somebody pass that message on to Colmes please!


Where is the call to get together and discuss in harmony these great issues facing our country. What happened to the art of compromise?
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Old 05-03-2008, 07:46 PM
 
19,183 posts, read 28,328,017 times
Reputation: 4002
Quote:
Originally Posted by ViewFromThePeak View Post
Once you can name me any energy source that is cheaper than oil for what you get out of it, I will agree with your claim that it isn't dirt cheap.
There is no currently known or hypothesized energy source that is within any reasonable technological distance of coming anywhere close to oil in terms of energy return per dollar invested, and the rate of return on oil itself has been falling rapidly for quite some time already. For at least the medium-term future, unit costs of energy are going to be increasing regardless of any steps that anyone takes. The trick here is not to do something (or things) stupid simply because we aren't as a society grown up enough to face the fact that the oil party is over...
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Old 05-03-2008, 07:47 PM
 
Location: Raleigh, NC
9,043 posts, read 11,579,603 times
Reputation: 1392
Quote:
Originally Posted by saganista View Post
There is no currently known or hypothesized energy source that is within any reasonable technological distance of coming anywhere close to oil in terms of energy return per dollar invested, and the rate of return on oil itself has been falling rapidly for quite some time already. For at least the medium-term future, unit costs of energy are going to be increasing regardless of any steps that anyone takes. The trick here is not to do something (or things) stupid simply because we aren't as a society grown up enough to face the fact that the oil party is over...
On this we can agree
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Old 05-03-2008, 07:49 PM
 
19,183 posts, read 28,328,017 times
Reputation: 4002
Quote:
Originally Posted by ViewFromThePeak View Post
Hehe...a Fed apologist. Wow, I thought they all but disappeared.
The subject was off-topic when you raised it. Feel free to worship at the Temple of the Quack-0's if you like. The real world people will try to carry on in your absence...
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Old 05-03-2008, 07:50 PM
 
48,516 posts, read 83,688,108 times
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The most oil we produce now is in the gulf of mexico and is alot more expensive to recover than landbased drilling. The next will be the deep gulf and it will be even more expensive and be on line in probably ten year. Oil will have to stay above $100 barrel to make the risk worth while at todays cost.I don't see oil going down becasue although we can go down in demand ;developing counbtries like cjina and india dramatically increase in the coming years to make world demand even higher.I don't see anyhting in the near future that will drop world demand and it is worldf demand that counts overall.
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Old 05-03-2008, 07:52 PM
 
Location: Floribama
14,765 posts, read 31,184,527 times
Reputation: 13535
Quote:
Originally Posted by UpperPeninsulaRon View Post
Let's take a look at this from another perspective, equally as unwavering:

That said, if you ... have ideas about building wind farms off the coast of Florida or Georgia, you had better start trading your electric vehicles for bicycles because it ain't gonna happen! There are millions of people that live along these coasts and millions more of us that go to beaches there often and if you think for even a second that we would stand by and watch a wind farm built there, you have another thought comming! It ain't gonna happen!

Our idea at the beach does not include swimming in a decaying mass of bird carcases (The Audabon Society says that windmills kill more birds of prey than all oil slicks put together - look it up) or watching the carcases roll up on the beach. Somebody pass that message on to Colmes please!

Where is the call to get together and discuss in harmony these great issues facing our country. What happened to the art of compromise?
Like the liberals up in Nantucket (or wherever the hell it was), they cried like a baby about the wind farms.
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Old 05-03-2008, 07:55 PM
 
19,183 posts, read 28,328,017 times
Reputation: 4002
Quote:
Originally Posted by ViewFromThePeak View Post
On this we can agree
No reason there shouldn't be more such things. Facts eventually tend to lead reasonable people in the same direction.

This is why the right-wing had to invent the disinformation media...
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Old 05-03-2008, 07:57 PM
 
Location: Raleigh, NC
9,043 posts, read 11,579,603 times
Reputation: 1392
Quote:
Originally Posted by saganista View Post
The subject was off-topic when you raised it. Feel free to worship at the Temple of the Quack-0's if you like. The real world people will try to carry on in your absence...
Yep: Tice, Schiff, Rogers, Mish. All belonging in straitjackets.

Someone needs a wee bit less CNBC and Faux in their lives.

The price of oil is directly related to monetary inflation. In fact, many would argue that its the primary motivator for the price increase, as opposed to a strict supply/demand issue. When more liquidity (hehe) is generated, that bids up prices for consumer goods. Isn't it a convenient coincidence that wheat, gold, oil, silver, soybeans, etc are rising at the same time?
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