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Old 05-07-2008, 10:57 AM
 
1,818 posts, read 3,087,108 times
Reputation: 229

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Quote:
Originally Posted by irwin View Post
Well, the application of the death penalty is the problem I have. It is certainly biased toward minorities, especially African Americans. Numerous studies have shown that a black man is much more likely to be sentenced to death as a white man who committed a similar crime. Also, anyone who has worked in the criminal justice system knows the fundamental injustices in the system. In the Great State of Texas, I remember reading stories about defendants in death penalty cases who had lawyers sleep through trial. Even if your lawyer stays awake, if you are poor the chips are already stacked against you. You get a court appointed lawyer who is swamped with cases. And given what I know about the level of investment Texas traditionally has made in public service, I doubt they are paying those court appointed lawyers very well.
I do agree with you that the justice system is biased toward mainly African Americans, and that they will usually get time or the death penalty quicker than a white person for the same crime.
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Old 05-07-2008, 11:07 AM
 
Location: on assignment
31 posts, read 54,272 times
Reputation: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Delta Planter View Post
Whatever race, whatever political bent, whatever nationality, if you're within the borders of the US, and sometimes even outside the borders of the US and perpetrate a crime against the US, whatever station in life (rich, poor; elite, common; sophisticate, redneck), to paraphrase the late Johnny Cochran: If you can't do the time (or sentence or penalty), don't do the crime.

And don't come to me for protection just because you are against gun ownership. If you think that just because you won't/can't defend yourself that the criminal will pass you by, wow, what a sucker you are!

And like someone else wrote, I really don't give a tinker's damn what anyone outside the United States thinks about our Constitution. Clean up your own backyard before you criticize someone else.

GO USA!
It has been proven in court over the yrs that one is liable for oneself for protection, not the cops, other neighbors, etc... Now there are lots of good bystanders (samaritians), neighbors, family, police depts., etc... to help in an personal emergency. Like the addage goes, 'when seconds count, police are many minutes away...'
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Old 05-07-2008, 11:32 AM
 
Location: Washington DC
5,922 posts, read 8,042,853 times
Reputation: 954
Quote:
Originally Posted by summerguelphite View Post
It's about time USA repealted it's 2nd ammendment and outlawed firearms. Also get rid of the death penalty as other civilized countries have done.
A Canadian.
Our second amendment is fairly toothless. American like to own guns and even in our most restrictive cities, we allow citizens to keep many types of guns in their homes. But that's based upon local laws not a "constitutional right."

The amendment is currently being reviewed by our Supreme Court who I suspect will affirm the rights of the fed, state, and local governments to restrict gun ownership and possession as long as there is some reasonable procedure established to rule on applications. Given all of that, the fact that about 25% of the population wants to own a gun makes major additional legislation unlikely.

The death penalty in this country is a travesty. It accomplishes no useful purpose and we execute way too many innocent people.
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Old 05-07-2008, 11:33 AM
 
Location: Sugar Land, TX
437 posts, read 629,715 times
Reputation: 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomocox View Post
Where did you get your Kool Aide? The death penalty is not biased towards minorities.
American Civil Liberties Union : Race and the Death Penalty
The Death Penalty in Black and White: Who Lives, Who Dies, Who Decides
Study Finds Racial Gap on Death Row
FOXNews.com - U.N.: U.S. Uses Death Penalty More on Minorities, Poor - Local News | News Articles | National News | US News

That didn't even take ten minutes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tomocox View Post
A few summers ago, there were 15 young black men shot by the Cincinnati Police. This created an out rage by all the Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton's
Gosh, I can't imagine why.

Quote:
so Cincy pulled the cops out of the area, and within a month 75 shootings had taken place.
So it's more honorable to be shot by the Cincy police than another random person?
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Old 05-07-2008, 03:07 PM
 
Location: In a house
5,232 posts, read 8,387,298 times
Reputation: 2583
Quote:
Originally Posted by rlchurch View Post
Our second amendment is fairly toothless. American like to own guns and even in our most restrictive cities, we allow citizens to keep many types of guns in their homes. But that's based upon local laws not a "constitutional right."
There are no toothless amendments. Just gutless citizens.
You cant allow people to excercise a constitutional right, thats just silly, its their right. We have allowed some municipalities to overstep their bounds but as you know thats being taken care of..

Quote:
The amendment is currently being reviewed by our Supreme Court who I suspect will affirm the rights of the fed, state, and local governments to restrict gun ownership and possession as long as there is some reasonable procedure established to rule on applications.
Kinda doubt it. By definition the bill of rights is a limitation on legislation.
They will rule that reasonable legislation is fine, but they will define reasonable as actually permitting people to have & use functional firearms.
Bans that hide behind impossible to follow legal restraints will not be permitted.

Quote:
Given all of that, the fact that about 25% of the population wants to own a gun makes major additional legislation unlikely.
I think its closer to 50%. But dont let reality stop you.

Quote:
The death penalty in this country is a travesty. It accomplishes no useful purpose and we execute way too many innocent people.
Perhaps you can answer the question another poster avoids. How many innocents are dead? The fact is it takes on average 20+ years to execute a person. Plenty of time for apeals & sych. Its also a fact that once dead, a rapist or murderer is rehabilitated for sure & certain. No one will ever know the pain & suffering avoided by imposing the death penalty on those that deserve it.
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Old 05-07-2008, 04:46 PM
 
Location: Sugar Land, TX
437 posts, read 629,715 times
Reputation: 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tin Knocker View Post
The fact is it takes on average 20+ years to execute a person. Plenty of time for apeals & sych. Its also a fact that once dead, a rapist or murderer is rehabilitated for sure & certain. No one will ever know the pain & suffering avoided by imposing the death penalty on those that deserve it.
Are you so blinded by your rabid right wing thinking that you haven't noticed that I have NO problem whatsoever with the death penalty as a punishment, just with the way it's currently being doled out in the United States? Because INNOCENT MEN HAVE DIED, and I have provided plenty of links with plenty of cases. We we never know "how many" because we will never know if everyone executed was actually guilty! If you don't mind that some innocent people have been put to death and that the death penalty is disproportionately used for minorities and poor whites, just say so. But don't act like this question is being avoided because it's such a brilliant question that we're scrambling for an answer that will meet your approval.

Again, for the illiterates: fix it, don't nix it!
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Old 05-07-2008, 07:00 PM
 
Location: Manitoba
793 posts, read 2,207,593 times
Reputation: 276
Many European have abolish the death penalty long ago, it is time for the US to do the same.
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Old 05-07-2008, 07:12 PM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,100 posts, read 39,160,627 times
Reputation: 4937
Quote:
Originally Posted by djf863000 View Post
Many European have abolish the death penalty long ago, it is time for the US to do the same.
I disagree. We will keep the death penalty. There is no reason not to keep it.

Frankly - I would add some crimes that would make someone subject to the death penalty - including victimizing children.

For instance - this on going case in Austria with the so called father who imprisioned his daughter for 20+ years - rape her - If I had my way, he would be executed.

It amazes me that he will spend less time in prison than he imprisoned his daughter
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Old 05-08-2008, 05:27 AM
 
Location: In a house
5,232 posts, read 8,387,298 times
Reputation: 2583
Quote:
Originally Posted by LauraKGrisgby View Post
Are you so blinded by your rabid right wing thinking that you haven't noticed that I have NO problem whatsoever with the death penalty as a punishment, just with the way it's currently being doled out in the United States? Because INNOCENT MEN HAVE DIED, and I have provided plenty of links with plenty of cases. We we never know "how many" because we will never know if everyone executed was actually guilty! If you don't mind that some innocent people have been put to death and that the death penalty is disproportionately used for minorities and poor whites, just say so. But don't act like this question is being avoided because it's such a brilliant question that we're scrambling for an answer that will meet your approval.

Again, for the illiterates: fix it, don't nix it!
First, I wasnt talking to you & you seem to have taken my comments personally. Dont, if I'm speaking directly to you, like now, it will be clearly the case.

If you support the death penalty how could we do it better than to allow several decades of repeated appeals? Also its a states right thing & the Govt has & should have little say in the matter.Other than to execute federal criminals.

The disproportionate use of it against minorities is directly related to the fact that minorities commit more capitol crimes. Thats easy to see if your not worried about hurting feelings.

I'm not ok with innocent men getting executed, but I dont think it has hapenned in recent history either.
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Old 05-08-2008, 07:51 AM
 
Location: North Cackelacky....in the hills.
19,567 posts, read 21,814,265 times
Reputation: 2519
One thing about violent criminals(Those on death row),most are NOT wealthy.

Using this fact,one would surmise that if NOT wealthy the violent criminals would be......poor perhaps???

Interesting tidbits on violent crime(the sort you would end up on death row for) in the USA.

49% of murder victims are black males.

51% of the victims were in their late teens and early twenties.

And 93% were killed by OTHER black people.

Perhaps this might explain why black people are overly represented in prison.
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