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Like Minnesota Nice - it can be a facade to hide the real issues.
Not eveeryone in MN is like me. In fact most people (especially here in the TC) are at the exact opposite of the ideology spectrum than I am.
If BLM signs in every yard are what you are after, Marxists in every political seat in the City are your thing, kris, then the Twin Cities would fit you quite nicely.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chenping
Solution for what?
Let's see if Mr. Ivy can answer. Funny how the simplest questions can some times be the hardest some times.
IOW, all rant, pitting groups against each other, no solutions. Got it.
Your simplistic rant ignores the more complex context of relations:
And if you use that frame, you make it an Asian-Black thing, you’re focusing on the two groups and taking attention away from the larger structures of power in which they’re embedded—not just racial structures, but also capitalism. Think about the relationship between Korean merchants buying a liquor store in Compton, and their Black customers. This is about capitalism, the way it creates divisions between groups and deems certain people disposable.
What we see in the United States are these periodic attacks on Asian Americans, always related to something else going on in the world. In this case it’s COVID. In the 1980s, it was U.S.-Japan trade relations. In the 1870s, it was a regional depression in the West and Southwest, and white workers turned against Chinese American workers. So there’s always been some kind of larger economic, political cause for these upsurges in anti-Asian violence. I think that’s different from what we see with anti-Black violence. Violence against Black people in this country is continuous, structural; violence against Asians is more periodic, contingent on events.
This is not to minimize what happens to Asian Americans! When you are harmed by an assailant because of anti-Asian racism, it doesn’t matter to you whether the violence was contingent or continuous or whatever. I’m not minimizing it. Clearly during COVID-19 something really alarming and troubling is happening.
I think in '21 your comment has an "against" misplacing a "by". The biggest threat to the security of black people in the US in 2021 is not cops, is not Klansman...it's other black people. One could say based on statistics that is becoming more true for other racial groups as well.
I realize this narrative doesn't fit the Marxist framework you wish to forge, but it's actually the truth.
In a place like NY it's open season because these attackers *know* that there is virtually no chance that the average person they target will be armed in any way and will be easy to beat and intimidate.
IOW, all rant, pitting groups against each other, no solutions. Got it.
I'm not surprised that a leftist like yourself refused to answer the question I posed re: how you'd address Asian senior citizens who may be alarmed and how they should act in these situations. And, what you said is such a typically leftist thing: accusing another of making one group and another group adversaries. It's the classic line of "trying to make two oppressed groups fight."
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Originally Posted by silverkris
Your simplistic rant ignores the more complex context of relations:
Rather than being a rant, it's loaded with facts; the problem with you leftists is that any fact, any event, any data point which does not further your narrative is ignored or dismissed or explained away as you're doing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by silverkris
And if you use that frame, you make it an Asian-Black thing, you’re focusing on the two groups and taking attention away from the larger structures of power in which they’re embedded—not just racial structures, but also capitalism. Think about the relationship between Korean merchants buying a liquor store in Compton, and their Black customers. This is about capitalism, the way it creates divisions between groups and deems certain people disposable.
Capitalism is all about operating under a free market by providing a good or a service within a market where there is a demand for that good or that service. Korean immigrants who have owned such shops in largely or wholly black areas went there because it made fiscal sense: they were able to afford opening a store there. Mr. Choi or Mrs. Kim couldn't open a store in an all-white suburb fresh off LAX? Well, then he and she had no other choice if they wanted to turn a profit while still eating and paying the rent.
Quote:
Originally Posted by silverkris
What we see in the United States are these periodic attacks on Asian Americans, always related to something else going on in the world. In this case it’s COVID. In the 1980s, it was U.S.-Japan trade relations. In the 1870s, it was a regional depression in the West and Southwest, and white workers turned against Chinese American workers. So there’s always been some kind of larger economic, political cause for these upsurges in anti-Asian violence. I think that’s different from what we see with anti-Black violence. Violence against Black people in this country is continuous, structural; violence against Asians is more periodic, contingent on events.
Ah, the expected allusion to "systemic racism."
Black SCOTUS justice.
Black POTUS.
Black senators, black congressmen and congresswomen and black mayors.
Black general in the Marine Corps (thank you President Trump).
Frankly speaking, while violence against anybody outside self-defense is unacceptable, we're talking about what happens to Asians who are attacked by blacks. You're the one who claims I'm pitting one group against another (I'm just giving you facts).
Anti-Asian violence by blacks is NOT new. Such crimes have been described as "nothing new" in the Bay Area as far back as 2010
Violence by blacks against Asians is not limited to "periodic" things. Korean immigrants have been held up at gunpoint in NYC since the 1980s and some have been shot dead. Older Korean immigrants - who were women - ended up in comas because some black thief not only decided to take their money but also elected to smash their heads with their pistols.
Blacks commit crimes against Asians hundreds of times more often than Asians do so against blacks; in fact, the latter is so rare it can as a matter of factual correctness be stated to be non-existent in this country. Blacks victimize whites and Hispanics far more than the other way around, and a police officer is almost 20 times likelier to be killed by a black person than the other way around.
The problem is that black criminality is a very serious issue which harms men and women from other ethnic groups, and as you probably know, black criminality is tantamount to a small-scale genocide of blacks in this country. The FBI's annual crime statistics demonstrate that in every murder of a black person in which there was a singular victim and it is known there was only one perpetrator, about 88% to 90% of every single such case (about 3,000 per year) have a black murderer. I have reviewed this data since the middle of the 2010s and the data is the same EVERY SINGLE YEAR. If one looks at broader murder numbers, the number of blacks killed by other blacks in total is about 7,000 per year with 90% to 93% of blacks killing other blacks.
My issue with the left (and perhaps you yourself do not follow the following idea) is that the left claims racism can only exist when prejudice and power are together, and by that logic, nonwhites cannot be racist because nonwhites do not hold power in this country. By that despicable line of thinking, then, blacks who insult Asians calling them names that would get a white-collar person fired if he /she uttered it at work are not racist - they're simply manifestations of prejudice, but it's not racism.
You leftists claim there's "white supremacy" at work and that this is somehow responsible for what blacks in this country face, but there's something called MORAL AGENCY and PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY. That there are black conservatives aplenty who agree with me and call out these same pathologies within urban America which have as of late spilled over to harm Asian-Americans is something the left doesn't ever care to address and when it has, I've come across ridiculous terms like "not all skinfolk are kinfolk" (again, I'm not saying that's your view, but the left never addresses how black conservatives think and how they agree with what I'm saying; hell, I have LEARNED from black conservatives).
The greatest perpetrator of violence against blacks are other blacks. If you care so much, then do something. Go tell black teenagers not to drop out of school. Go tell black kids drugs destroy human health. Go tell black teenagers not to have sex without protection (STDs and pregnancies). Go be a mentor to a black teenager. Go tell black men not to leave the women they impregnate.
Pathetic frauds like BLM the organization are awash in donation money and could easily use those funds to implement programs in the inner city to do the things I suggested you do, but none is being done. Then when these pathologies persist and the left protests about "the school-to-prison pipeline," these complaints are accompanied by further protests about "systemic racism."
So what are leftists doing to actually reduce the possibility that black youths will end up in destructive paths?
Again, black conservatives who are professors and economists and philosophers and scholars who were born when Jim Crow was still in force all say the same.
Systemic violence? No.
Quote:
Originally Posted by silverkris
This is not to minimize what happens to Asian Americans! When you are harmed by an assailant because of anti-Asian racism, it doesn’t matter to you whether the violence was contingent or continuous or whatever. I’m not minimizing it. Clearly during COVID-19 something really alarming and troubling is happening.[/i]
See, that's the problem, again due to your leftist ideology. You only see things through the narrative and agenda the left allows - you cited violence being contingent or continuous or whatever. To the person getting his/her skull cracked or pelvis bones broken or put in the hospital, that makes no damn difference. Yet the left prattles about these insignificant terms.
The left as you did in your post points to problems being structural and systemic and what not. Well, since you agree it's bad Asian-Americans are attacked, then here are a few examples, and some are before Covid arrived, so President Trump can't be blamed.
After you read them all - if the victims had been black and the perpetrators Asian or white, what would you in your ideological belief system have called it? If you say you wouldn't have called it more proof of "systemic racism" or "systemic violence" against blacks, then I really can't take you seriously.
I do wonder if you these these criminals who did these horrible things to Asians are "oppressed."
I'm not surprised that a leftist like yourself refused to answer the question I posed re: how you'd address Asian senior citizens who may be alarmed and how they should act in these situations. And, what you said is such a typically leftist thing: accusing another of making one group and another group adversaries. It's the classic line of "trying to make two oppressed groups fight."
[. . .]
"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Sprawling_Homeowner again."
In reading about that horrible string of anti-Asian attacks that Sprawling posted, several things stood out. One, of course, was that the media didn't want to promote the fact that the assailants were black. We all know that if they had been white, this would have been trumpeted far and wide. The poster to whom you replied, and many others, would have used it to support their "systemic racism" theory.
And there's also this: every one of those crimes took place in either New York City or the Bay Area. Granted, these areas have much higher Asian populations than most other places, so in part it's a case of there simply being more potential victims available, if one is looking to harm an Asian person. But even accounting for that, there seems to be a horrible moral rot in these places, where so many people are choosing to inflict pain on others, simply because of their skin color. And, and for the liberals reading this comment, I'd like to point out that we have a word for that: racism. Or is it only racist if white people do it?
Yes the media sucks. It’s reprehensible. I don’t understand why they don’t do the logical thing and completely just call all black oriole criminals. We all know that if there is a crime, a blank person is automatically responsible. We need to to characterize all black people as criminals and murderers, it is the only moral thing to do!!! Skin color says everything about how someone thinks.
I hate how the media is so oppressive to white people who wear MAGA hats. How could you possibly judge someone by the type of hat that there wear. How superficial!
"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Sprawling_Homeowner again."
In reading about that horrible string of anti-Asian attacks that Sprawling posted, several things stood out. One, of course, was that the media didn't want to promote the fact that the assailants were black. We all know that if they had been white, this would have been trumpeted far and wide. The poster to whom you replied, and many others, would have used it to support their "systemic racism" theory.
And there's also this: every one of those crimes took place in either New York City or the Bay Area. Granted, these areas have much higher Asian populations than most other places, so in part it's a case of there simply being more potential victims available, if one is looking to harm an Asian person. But even accounting for that, there seems to be a horrible moral rot in these places, where so many people are choosing to inflict pain on others, simply because of their skin color. And, and for the liberals reading this comment, I'd like to point out that we have a word for that: racism. Or is it only racist if white people do it?
Another poster (one of the best I've met on C-D) said to me days ago that the left doesn't really care about minorities and that when it speaks about "white supremacy" it really means "the system." And as for attacks against Asians by blacks, the left may in some cases offer lukewarm condemnations but they can only go so far because blacks are too important for the left as allies and being too strident would be counterproductive to the left's agenda, which always has as its core one unshakable goal: the achievement of power.
Asians don't matter to the left. Blacks do because attacking blacks goes along with the left's narrative and goals.
As for the poster I quoted, the first thing he/she wrote included "pitting groups against each other." That is such an old, overused, and yet prototypical leftist thing to say; it's a clever and craft deflection which makes people whom the leftist is responding to go on the defensive.
Others here in the past few days, including another I think is Asian as well (it may have been the same poster here, I don't remember) mentioned "dogging blacks."
NO ONE on C-D who has in detail highlighted the recent crimes against Asians perpetrated by blacks is in any way trying to start some kind of ethnic conflict between blacks in the U.S. and Asians in the U.S. The reason this detail is brought up is because for all of the left's incessant and shrill complaints about racism, the left has largely excluded the plight of Asians when it does not suit its agenda (blacks as perpetrators) while it gladly picks it up as a useful tool when it does suit its agenda (white supremacy/Robert Aaron Long, the Atlanta gunman).
Why are Asians protesting white supremacy when most crimes against Asians are done by nonwhites?
Anyone with half a brain who thinks the left genuinely and sincerely gives the tiniest damn about the suffering of people of whatever race or background is as hopelessly naive and idealistic as some of the left's own most militant true believers. Suffering and people's pain and all that stuff only matter to the left as tools with which the left may ultimately increase and then hold on to power.
EDIT: that poster doesn't even have her own ideas; 3 of the 5 paragraphs I quoted were from some leftist outlet's article.
Last edited by Sprawling_Homeowner; 04-01-2021 at 03:15 PM..
Another poster (one of the best I've met on C-D) said to me days ago that the left doesn't really care about minorities and that when it speaks about "white supremacy" it really means "the system." And as for attacks against Asians by blacks, the left may in some cases offer lukewarm condemnations but they can only go so far because blacks are too important for the left as allies and being too strident would be counterproductive to the left's agenda, which always has as its core one unshakable goal: the achievement of power.
Asians don't matter to the left. Blacks do because attacking blacks goes along with the left's narrative and goals.
As for the poster I quoted, the first thing he/she wrote included "pitting groups against each other." That is such an old, overused, and yet prototypical leftist thing to say; it's a clever and craft deflection which makes people whom the leftist is responding to go on the defensive.
Others here in the past few days, including another I think is Asian as well (it may have been the same poster here, I don't remember) mentioned "dogging blacks."
NO ONE on C-D who has in detail highlighted the recent crimes against Asians perpetrated by blacks is in any way trying to start some kind of ethnic conflict between blacks in the U.S. and Asians in the U.S. The reason this detail is brought up is because for all of the left's incessant and shrill complaints about racism, the left has largely excluded the plight of Asians when it does not suit its agenda (blacks as perpetrators) while it gladly picks it up as a useful tool when it does suit its agenda (white supremacy/Robert Aaron Long, the Atlanta gunman).
Why are Asians protesting white supremacy when most crimes against Asians are done by nonwhites?
Anyone with half a brain who thinks the left genuinely and sincerely gives the tiniest damn about the suffering of people of whatever race or background is as hopelessly naive and idealistic as some of the left's own most militant true believers. Suffering and people's pain and all that stuff only matter to the left as tools with which the left may ultimately increase and then hold on to power.
EDIT: that poster doesn't even have her own ideas; 3 of the 5 paragraphs I quoted were from some leftist outlet's article.
You make a good case against the left but what is the left? Are they black, white or something else? And what is their agenda?
Biden says he will prioritize hate crimes against Asians. However, he also says that he wants equity in prosecutions.
Does Biden not know that targeting those that commit hate crimes against Asians will disproportionately impact black criminals more than criminals of other races.
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