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Old 01-04-2007, 12:55 AM
 
Location: Bothell, Washington
454 posts, read 638,863 times
Reputation: 187

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Quote:
Originally Posted by TNLove View Post

Look at Sweden, they still succeed (sans certain immigrant groups) on a welfare state and have one of the highest standards of living.
A comparison of the US to Sweden is an interesting, but not very convincing argument.

With a population of 9 million, any comparison to what they do there is like comparing how a family of 3 works compared to a family of 100.

But there are interesting things happening in Sweden such as a stong movement to privatize a large part of the healthcare system, and the ability for citizens to buy private healthcare. If the system was so good, why?

With the highest taxes in the world, not many Americans would be willing to give up 30-60% of their income to the IRS, pay all of the other taxes involved, all to help other people who have no interest to make any money because frankly, they don't have to!
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Old 01-04-2007, 10:49 AM
 
Location: The land of sugar... previously Houston and Austin
5,429 posts, read 12,879,568 times
Reputation: 3623
I had a lot of close family that lived in New Orleans since the 1930's. Many of them have gone elsewhere, the ones who still lived in the city are living in the suburbs now because their homes were flooded in the storm.

What I can say is the culture in N.O. and LA in general is just so different from the rest of the country. It's kind of hard for those of us in TX (and elsewhere) to understand, and it's hard for me to explain. They just think differently. This is not all a race thing (my family is white).

My family who grew up there went to private schools because the public schools were so bad. My grandfather worked in the N.O.P.D. for a while, and said they are so corrupt. And so is the state government. It did create something of a welfare state there.

The criminals who escaped the lax and corrupt justice system in N.O. are being caught and punished in Houston and all over Texas. I think they've been rather surprised at the swift justice they've received compared to N.O.

I wish I could explain it better. It's kind of unbelievable if you think about it... but it's true. People try to say TX is like a whole other country? No, no... but LA is.
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Old 01-04-2007, 10:56 AM
 
Location: The Big D
14,874 posts, read 36,293,118 times
Reputation: 5787
Quote:
Originally Posted by JJP View Post
I had a lot of close family that lived in New Orleans since the 1930's. Many of them have gone elsewhere, the ones who still lived in the city are living in the suburbs now because their homes were flooded in the storm.

What I can say is the culture in N.O. and LA in general is just so different from the rest of the country. It's kind of hard for those of us in TX (and elsewhere) to understand, and it's hard for me to explain. They just think differently. This is not all a race thing (my family is white).

My family who grew up there went to private schools because the public schools were so bad. My grandfather worked in the N.O.P.D. for a while, and said they are so corrupt. And so is the state government. It did create something of a welfare state there.

The criminals who escaped the lax and corrupt justice system in N.O. are being caught and punished in Houston and all over Texas. I think they've been rather surprised at the swift justice they've received compared to N.O.

I wish I could explain it better. It's kind of unbelievable if you think about it... but it's true. People try to say TX is like a whole other country? No, no... but LA is.
That is my point exactly, the way of life there is TOTALLY different than ANY OTHER place in this country. It did not matter their skin color there it was the way of life for ALL races. They had jobs but they were THE lowest paying jobs around. They had no need to get a college education to get a higher paying job and be able to buy a house, they had a house. One that was paid for. One that the family shared. These homes were not bought and sold on the market like in other areas of the country. Grandma did not go to a nursing home when she reached a certain age and the kids sold the house because they had moved on. The house stayed in the family. It was a way of life that many do not realize existed in this country.
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Old 01-04-2007, 12:17 PM
 
Location: SF, CA
431 posts, read 293,248 times
Reputation: 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by momof2dfw View Post
That is my point exactly, the way of life there is TOTALLY different than ANY OTHER place in this country. It did not matter their skin color there it was the way of life for ALL races. They had jobs but they were THE lowest paying jobs around. They had no need to get a college education to get a higher paying job and be able to buy a house, they had a house. One that was paid for. One that the family shared. These homes were not bought and sold on the market like in other areas of the country. Grandma did not go to a nursing home when she reached a certain age and the kids sold the house because they had moved on. The house stayed in the family. It was a way of life that many do not realize existed in this country.

No need to get a college education and seek a higher paying job because they owned a house? Are you asking me to take that literally? You are condoning the continuing cycle of poverty and justifying it by saying "that's just the way it is in Nawlins" and that is.....RIDICULOUS.

People have to make choices in order to change the course of their future. Rather than carry guns and knives to school, kids need to carry books! Rather than roam the streets at night they should be studying! (Most parents want better lives for their children and instill good education and work ethics in them). Rather than robbing at gunpoint, they should be working for their money. The person they robbed worked for it! But it's just SO easy to live off of others. And it's SO easy to say that it is just their culture and we don't understand. That's 100% B.S. Their culture is living off of the government because they always have and because they feel they are ENTITLED to it because they were done wrong 250 years ago! It's crap, total nonsense and I'm sick of it. Look at those who have returned and rebuilt - they did it because they had drive, ambition and the hope of a future. Those who don't have drive and ambition continue to live in government trailers just waiting for their 9th ward to be rebuilt by the federal government so they can move in rent free, draw their welfare checks and get back to living they way they like to live - free.
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Old 01-04-2007, 02:25 PM
 
Location: The Big D
14,874 posts, read 36,293,118 times
Reputation: 5787
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lannie View Post
No need to get a college education and seek a higher paying job because they owned a house? Are you asking me to take that literally? You are condoning the continuing cycle of poverty and justifying it by saying "that's just the way it is in Nawlins" and that is.....RIDICULOUS.

People have to make choices in order to change the course of their future. Rather than carry guns and knives to school, kids need to carry books! Rather than roam the streets at night they should be studying! (Most parents want better lives for their children and instill good education and work ethics in them). Rather than robbing at gunpoint, they should be working for their money. The person they robbed worked for it! But it's just SO easy to live off of others. And it's SO easy to say that it is just their culture and we don't understand. That's 100% B.S. Their culture is living off of the government because they always have and because they feel they are ENTITLED to it because they were done wrong 250 years ago! It's crap, total nonsense and I'm sick of it. Look at those who have returned and rebuilt - they did it because they had drive, ambition and the hope of a future. Those who don't have drive and ambition continue to live in government trailers just waiting for their 9th ward to be rebuilt by the federal government so they can move in rent free, draw their welfare checks and get back to living they way they like to live - free.

Would you like to tell that to my friends 90+ year old grandmother, that happens to be white? She did not live off of welfare neither did her family. The NO lifestyle was all these people knew. It is not "100% BS", it is reality. Not EVERYONE in NO blamed slavery for their "hardships" nor was everyone in NO that was living below poverty black. They had a way of life that was comfortable and familiar to them and THAT is fact. Not that I am condoning it at all but it is hard for people that are completely unfamiliar w/ that area to understand. Just go back and find the interview that Cokie Roberts and her twin brother did on their 80something year old mother that lived in NO. She had never driven a car, lived at home in the house they grew up in, walked everywhere she went. These people are NOT black nor were they in poverty but it was a way of life and nothing else. Maybe it is time that people like you realize that not everyone in NO was on welfare nor black and that not all black people in NO were on welfare. I was reading a story recently in the paper here about a family that evacuated to Dallas and they were finally all returning back. The family happened to be black but they were not "rich". They all had jobs and most of the younger generation had college degrees, one was a teacher. They did not live in fancy houses but rather lived w/in their means and probably well below it, something sorely lacking in most of this country.

Yes I am very familiar w/ the fact that drugs and violence was sadly a part of NO and do not condone it. But you can not condemn an entire city to hell because of a few bad apples. There were and still are many good people from New Orleans that worked at jobs that you would probably snub your nose at. They did it for low wages to help keep the tourists and conventions coming to Nawlins. It was a wonderful place to visit and never once did I feel in danger and that even includes when I used public transportation when by myself.

Can we not say that if a major disaster of this proportion were to happen in any other large urban area that it would be just as bad and take just as long to recover? I think so. And the point I am trying to make is that MANY of these homes were paid for and did not have insurance coverage to be rebuilt. So it is a lot harder than you think. The houses they have left can not be sold and the equity used to buy another house somewhere else. They literally have NOTHING! I think we all need to be thankful that for the most part we are far better off than the people of New Orleans.
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Old 01-04-2007, 02:54 PM
 
Location: SF, CA
431 posts, read 293,248 times
Reputation: 198
Default Clarification

The MAJORITY of people who are still sitting in FEMA trailers are black. The MAJORITY of people who are not working are black. The MAJORITY of people who are committing crimes in New Orleans are black. The MAJORITY of people who have FAILED MISERABLY to put their lives back together are black. The MAJORITY of people who think they are owed something after Katrina are black. I could go on and on and on...

Stop making excuses for the MAJORITY of people who have sat back on their hands and done nothing to help themselves!
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Old 01-04-2007, 09:43 PM
 
Location: Navarre, Florida
327 posts, read 173,925 times
Reputation: 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by JJP View Post
I had a lot of close family that lived in New Orleans since the 1930's. Many of them have gone elsewhere, the ones who still lived in the city are living in the suburbs now because their homes were flooded in the storm.

What I can say is the culture in N.O. and LA in general is just so different from the rest of the country. It's kind of hard for those of us in TX (and elsewhere) to understand, and it's hard for me to explain. They just think differently. This is not all a race thing (my family is white).

My family who grew up there went to private schools because the public schools were so bad. My grandfather worked in the N.O.P.D. for a while, and said they are so corrupt. And so is the state government. It did create something of a welfare state there.

The criminals who escaped the lax and corrupt justice system in N.O. are being caught and punished in Houston and all over Texas. I think they've been rather surprised at the swift justice they've received compared to N.O.

I wish I could explain it better. It's kind of unbelievable if you think about it... but it's true. People try to say TX is like a whole other country? No, no... but LA is.
I can totally relate to your post, JJP. Unless you've relocated there, it's very difficult to understand the mindset. I still don't! The fact that the police department and the local and state government are corrupt just adds to the total chaos when something like hurricane katrina occurs...even after everyone knew that it was bound to happen.
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Old 01-06-2007, 11:17 AM
 
Location: Deep In The Heat Of Texas
2,639 posts, read 2,314,724 times
Reputation: 700
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lannie View Post
The MAJORITY of people who are still sitting in FEMA trailers are black. The MAJORITY of people who are not working are black. The MAJORITY of people who are committing crimes in New Orleans are black. The MAJORITY of people who have FAILED MISERABLY to put their lives back together are black. The MAJORITY of people who think they are owed something after Katrina are black. I could go on and on and on...

Stop making excuses for the MAJORITY of people who have sat back on their hands and done nothing to help themselves!
Kudos, Lannie, on this excellent post as well as the others you've made on this thread. I totally agree with you.

They were too helpless to even clean up the mess in the yards as that would take effort. It wouldn't have cost them a dime, but please, bend over and pick up debris. They'd rather stare at the holes in the roof and complain how badly they've been treated. No, I don't live there but about 6 months after the disaster, Oprah brought NO into my living room. That was enough proof for me.

I see this kind of thing every day with students at a junior high school where I work. It is totally pathetic. I only wish they would take Bill Cosby's message seriously, but I guess now he's an outcast for speaking out about his own race.

We had quite a few of the evacuees stay at a large church where the ex-youth director at my church is now serving. One elderly lady needed her medication refilled. John went to the pharmacy to do so, paid for it out of his own pocket, brought it back to her, and John received this comment and hateful look: "I don't takes nos generics."

And as you say, one could go on and on and on........................
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Old 01-06-2007, 08:08 PM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
5,080 posts, read 7,681,650 times
Reputation: 1105
I have been thinking of Moving down to Gulfport area and trying to build a home out there, to help revitalize the area. My Grandfather was in the navel home there.. its now gone. I drove the whole coastline about 4 months prior to KAT hitting there, and even talked to the wife about moving out there. I recently did a drive around the area and I was shocked at the change. None of the stuff I saw the first time, was there this time around.
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Old 01-07-2007, 01:38 PM
 
Location: Cookeville Tn.
177 posts, read 811,066 times
Reputation: 88
Download google earth and take a liik at the gulf coast. Most of it still covered with blue tarps, the rest is gone.
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