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We really have neither system in America. We used to be capitalist, but now we are 'corporatist', meaning large corporations tend to get the government to stifle out the competition ...
Indeed, we have corporatism, not capitalism.
Yes, capitalism in it's most brutal form is culling the herd. Wild swings, highs and lows, winners and losers... very exciting. It's not inherently wrong, but it can be given too much latitude over public good.
Gov't is required by our own charter to provide for common defense, but not all evils come with a gun at your door. Sometimes they're salesmen. Public trust has really diminished since the 50's, don't you think? This 80's trend towards deregulation had a dark side that absolved gov't from seeing that public trust wasn't being violated. It's not all roses as they'd have you believe when you're looking at enron.
Corporatist- are ordinary people espousing that as political ideology, or is this just what Thomas Jefferson was warning us about?
Neither Socialism or Capitalism were ever meant to exist in their 'purist' forms. When Marx first pioneered the ideas of Communism, he also wrote of Socialism as a 'feasible and less-exhausting' alternative to Communism. However, there are several differences, emphasized by the nations that embraced them. For example, during WWII, Socialist (Nazi) Germany was fighting against the Communists of Russia, not just on the battlefield but from an ideological standing as well (actually they were fighting that way with everyone). Hitler often emphasized the differences at his rallies.
Excellent point, frankie. Please note the tactics used by all, because they were borrowing from each other all along. Not as black and white as history books in elementary school would offer.
I for one don't think they are mutually exclusive. But I would like to see how others feel about the issue.
They are mutually exclusive. Either something is capitalistic or it's socialistic. After the tremendous global failures of socialism in the USSR, China, Cuba, Venezuala and Europe, "socialist" is rarely heard anymore. Where Smith, in his original treatise that introduced the world to capitalism proper "The Wealth of Nations", included that public education and environmental laws were necessary, the socialists are now on board with BS socialism called "soft socialism" and the like.
Capitalism supports characteristics of socialism. However, where the interest of socialism is to attack social classes, capitalism's goal is an acceptance of social classes and way to deal best with them.
Capitalism recognizes human nature... Socialism seeks to suppress it.
could you stay on point and off baiting?
The structure of european union, is indeed, socialist. They've shared risk in cooperation with one another for common goal of stability.
The european union is socialism. The euro is doing well last I heard. I guess thats nobody. <shrugs>
Parts of the European Union are more Socialist than others. However, that has no bearing at all on the value of Euros. Last I checked not every single EU member has adopted the Euro currency.
Frankie, but if you look at it in terms of structure only- it is very relevant. Just because a government is calling itself one ideologic model doesn't mean it's what it practices for policy issues. Has the current republican admin. resembled anything to do with true republicanism? Think about it.
The solutions to governance, economics, military structures, operating tax margins and a myriad of other things have been derivitive. The fact that other parts of europe not considering themselves socialist doesn't mean they aren't practicing socialism (limited by banding currency only).
Things changed and gave it a rebranding name of euro, but did they know they were voting for socialist arrangements? I guess socialism is a dirty word when nazi's were finished.
...*sigh*... Another failure of public education thread...
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