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Old 01-08-2007, 11:38 AM
 
Location: Colorado
10,017 posts, read 16,712,891 times
Reputation: 2091

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Quote:
Originally Posted by wildberries61 View Post
If we hadn't pulled out of the Gulf War we should have stayed and finished our mission. We showed Saddam and others right then, we were weak. They let the loonies go to far before anything is done. The UN has a lot to blame for all of this. No One is helping they could have controlled some of these dictators you don't sanction the people you sanction the dictator.
If we hadnt pulled out it would play out just like it is now, all the presidents fault, shouldnt have gone, blah, blah blah.... he should have been snipered along time ago. Sanctioning him would have just pissed him off more. My biggest fear is N. Korea, those people are mean! And Iran.

 
Old 01-08-2007, 11:54 AM
 
Location: Journey's End
10,189 posts, read 24,493,747 times
Reputation: 3826
MoMark, what a thoughtful, reasoned and thorough post. We only differ slightly, and that is in the past, not the future.

I didn't and wouldn't vote for President Bush, and didn't support his efforts to retaliate against either the Taliban or Iraq--for whatever reasons presented.

I remember as if it were today, September 11, I was there; I remember as if it were today, the declaration of war against terror; I remember the decision to employ troops in Iraq because of WMD as if those same weapons were here in my hand.

I don't believe in passivity as a person, but I do believe strongly in diplomacy in an era of potential mass destruction--ours and theirs. I often feel frightened, not personally, but globally at the amount of venom that is spewed one against the other--and see a science fiction novel, any, come to life.

We gained nothing with either our Taliban offensive or our Iraqi invasion except to spur more terrorism in a region rift with internal tension, poverty and a basic belief that the hereafter is where the reward lays.

If we continue to amass more troops, spout more rhetoric and encourage more war--anywhere, for any reason, we might all see those rewards together in a heaven I would call hell.

Thanks for putting this issue or series of issues, really, on the table.
 
Old 01-08-2007, 12:00 PM
 
Location: New Jersey
12,775 posts, read 7,404,821 times
Reputation: 13043
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nea1 View Post
I thought he was too stupid to pull something like that off?!!! Or I guess congress was. What they dont have the ability to think and look for themselves? it was an important issue!!
Yes, he is too stupid. That's why he has Tom Delay and Cheney do the 'thinking' for him.

Really, everyone should spend some time watching public television news. Corporation for Public Broadcasting, or listen to NPR on the radio. No one is going to get the REAL news watching their local stations. They are all in the hip pockets of the very people masterminding the downfall of this country. And I already know what some will say, 'NPR and CPB are left-wing liberals, yadda, yadda, yadda'. Just keep in mind that they do not MAKE UP the news. And of course, Lou Dobbs, the only person bringing these things to light on national television.

Bush is an utter failure and I still believe he is the Manchurian Candidate. Just don't know exactly who is pulling the puppet strings. Ugh! God Save Us!
 
Old 01-08-2007, 12:13 PM
 
1,393 posts, read 872,944 times
Reputation: 462
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nea1 View Post
If we hadnt pulled out it would play out just like it is now, all the presidents fault, shouldnt have gone, blah, blah blah.... he should have been snipered along time ago. Sanctioning him would have just pissed him off more. My biggest fear is N. Korea, those people are mean! And Iran.
But, they have showed by taking N.Korea's dictators alcohol supply away,and what ever else he was passionate about he decided he would talk. But, with China and Russia behind him this is whats keeping the fire burning. This is defiantly not all Americas fault many countries want to see us fall. We can sit and put the blame on our government while China and Russia are fueling the fire with N. Korea and Iran and selling weapons. I believe neither one of those countries would have the balls to challenge us on their own.
I also, believe if Iran and Syria were to back off the war in Iraq would be much better and oh yea, they need to off Al-Sadr he is just as bad as the rest.
 
Old 01-08-2007, 12:24 PM
 
Location: Colorado
10,017 posts, read 16,712,891 times
Reputation: 2091
Quote:
Originally Posted by wildberries61 View Post
But, they have showed by taking N.Korea's dictators alcohol supply away,and what ever else he was passionate about he decided he would talk. But, with China and Russia behind him this is whats keeping the fire burning. This is defiantly not all Americas fault many countries want to see us fall. We can sit and put the blame on our government while China and Russia are fueling the fire with N. Korea and Iran and selling weapons. I believe neither one of those countries would have the balls to challenge us on their own.
I also, believe if Iran and Syria were to back off the war in Iraq would be much better and oh yea, they need to off Al-Sadr he is just as bad as the rest.
N. Korea's dictator will just play games, that's what the loonies do. Saddam did and got away with it for years. Sometimes I wonder what would happen if we just let everyone fight their own battles, then I remember everyone wants to be #1. I am sure Bush had good intentions, but has become a pawn, the president does'nt run the country, the congress does. Right now they are loving the fact that everyone hates Bush, takes the the heat off them. Everyone should have know that the War in Iraq was going to be an uphill battle, when have civilians ever wanted peace enough to make a stand on their own?
 
Old 01-08-2007, 12:33 PM
 
Location: SF, CA
431 posts, read 293,603 times
Reputation: 198
Default Get your facts right...

No, you actually make little sense...

You fail miserably to give the FULL facts:

Regarding Social Security: The "secret" Social Security Agreement between the US and Mexico has not been signed by President Bush. If and when he does sign it, it would have to be passed by the House ~ and they would have 60 days to approve or reject it. The US currently has 21 similar agreements in effect with other nations, which are intended to eliminate dual taxation for persons who work outside their country of origin. All of the agreements are with developed nations with economies similar to that of the U.S.

For example, a worker who turns 62 after 1990 generally needs 40 calendar quarters of coverage to receive retirement benefits. Under these agreements, workers are allowed to combine earnings from both countries in order to qualify for benefits. The Agreement with Mexico would allow workers to qualify with just six quarters, or 18 months, of U.S. coverage. It may not be perfect, but it's better than nothing.

As for President Bush wanting to grant amnesty for illegals - you are flat out wrong! Here's he stand on that issue: From January 2004 - released from the White House.

"Last week, I proposed a new temporary worker program that will help further the cause of safe, legal and orderly migration. This temporary worker program will match willing foreign workers with willing American employers when no Americans can be found to fill the jobs. Under this program, undocumented workers currently in the United States will be able to come out of the shadows and establish legal identities. All participants in the program will be issued a temporary worker card that will allow them to travel back and forth between their home and the United States without fear of being denied reentry into our country.
This plan is not amnesty, placing undocumented workers on the automatic path of citizenship. I oppose amnesty because it encourages the violation of our laws and perpetuates illegal immigration. My proposal expects that most temporary workers will eventually return permanently to their home countries when the period of work that I will be negotiating with the Congress has expired. And I think it's important to give financial incentives to those workers in order for them to make the decision to return home permanently.
I'll work with President Fox and other leaders on a plan to give temporary workers credit in their home countries' retirement systems for the time they work in the United States. I support making it easier for temporary workers to contribute a portion of their earnings to tax-preferred savings accounts, money they can collect as they return to their native countries.

Under this program the United States will benefit from the honest labor of foreign workers. Our neighbors will benefit as productive citizens return home with money to invest and to spend in their own nation's economy. This program will be more humane, humane to workers, and will live up to the highest ideals of our nations."

While my nation benefits from the dreams that newcomers bring to America, I believe that people should be better able to achieve their dreams at their own home. The best way in the long-term to reduce the pressures that create illegal immigration is to expand economic opportunity in countries at both ends of an immigrant's journey. This is why President Fox and I are committed to free and fair trade. We've seen it lift both our nations and our economies. Since 1994, trade between our two countries has grown from $100 billion to $232 billion. We will continue to work together, and with Canada, to enhance North American prosperity and security.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

MoMark, while you may find it noble to pick apart the President's Administration, please do so with full and complete facts. While you would prefer that everyone follow you over the side of cliff just because you say it's the thing to do, there are some of us here would think independently and are able to do research in the spirit of full disclosure.

And there's more, but I work for a living and can't post more right now. But I will.
 
Old 01-08-2007, 12:50 PM
 
Location: South Bay, California
1,701 posts, read 5,855,709 times
Reputation: 330
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nea1 View Post
I dont think taking Saddam out was a mistake.
I absolutely agree with you! He is at fault for killing 700,000 people.
 
Old 01-08-2007, 12:51 PM
 
Location: Colorado
10,017 posts, read 16,712,891 times
Reputation: 2091
Quote:
Originally Posted by dusesean1986 View Post
I absolutely agree with you! He is at fault for killing 700,000 people.
I think he killed ALOT more!!!!!!!!
 
Old 01-08-2007, 01:00 PM
 
Location: South Bay, California
1,701 posts, read 5,855,709 times
Reputation: 330
Post Left-Wing Media Slant

It is ironic when members of the U.S. military come back, they tell me 90% of the Iraqi people wanting U.S. troops established in Iraq. But, if I turn to NBC, CBS, ABC, and MSNBC, they tell you the contrary, the Iraqi folks don't want the U.S. millitary helping rebuild Iraq. Many educated and alert folks and myself included are understanding the media is giving a grim-reaper detailed account of how poor things are going in Iraq. I've known for a long time the media is extremely bias, leaning towards the left, with the exception for Fox News Channel. I know Fox News leans slightly to the right, but I believe they give a more accurate and truthful account of everyday occurences in Iraq than the overwhelming media. I don't believe the Left-Wing media is being honest about Iraq, because many in the media are strong liberals who have anti-war objections. If anyone has a different opinion, please shed a different light on the subject.
 
Old 01-08-2007, 03:54 PM
 
Location: Maine
15,140 posts, read 19,779,770 times
Reputation: 17321
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nea1 View Post
The national debt has increased due to the war, yes, but didnt begin with Bush.
Bush began his term with a huge national surplus. Yes, the war made it worse, but don't underestimate Bush's huge tax cuts to the rich.
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