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There will always be the non legit ones who slip by the system no matter what war they served in. The only thing you get by being around other veterans are a drinking problem and a drug habit just look at any VFW post. Most Vets are so bitter they need to insult others to feel good about themselves. "Take advantage of the system" You mean that joke called the VA and the crumbs they call a disability pension? Who can live on that in America these days. You don't have the drop outs anymore serving cause they can't get anything better. These days in the infantry E -3 E-4 and Sgts have BA's and Master Degrees and are more educated than the staff that is in charge of them. These service members would make more money outside the service. Check the regs PTSD pays out more than a missing limb go figure that one out. In my opinion anything that can get these guys paid is ok by me because the MILITARY system the day your broken is trying to get you out on the cheap. "The military is not concerned about your past or future ability to earn a living" It does not matter what war you served in if your a coward and use PTSD as a get over then that person will carry that for the rest of there lives. PTSD is a valid illness that has been around from prior wars but called different names. "Getting some violence in their life" Although being in a violent environment gives you the ability to operate under great stress everyone has there limits. The writer of this statement lives in the old style of the military and those days are gone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by One Thousand
They need to buck up and stop using sissy excuses to take advantage of the system. What makes it trauma is their naive view of the world. Getting some violence in their life is good for them. Learning to cope with it is better.
Head shrinkers are only going to turn them into bigger sissies. Get them around veterans of other wars. That's how they'll get better.
The Bush administration is not supporting returning vets like Jon Town.
Jon Town has spent the last few years fighting two battles, one against his body, the other against the US Army. Both began in October 2004 in Ramadi, Iraq. He was standing in the doorway of his battalion's headquarters when a 107-millimeter rocket struck two feet above his head. The impact punched a piano-sized hole in the concrete facade, sparked a huge fireball and tossed the 25-year-old Army specialist to the floor, where he lay blacked out among the rubble.
But instead of sending Town to a medical board and discharging him because of his injuries, doctors at Fort Carson, Colorado, did something strange: They claimed Town's wounds were actually caused by a "personality disorder." Town was then booted from the Army and told that under a personality disorder discharge, he would never receive disability or medical benefits.
They say the military is purposely misdiagnosing soldiers like Town and that it's doing so for one reason: to cheat them out of a lifetime of disability and medical benefits, thereby saving billions in expenses.
In the Army's separations manual it's called Regulation 635-200, Chapter 5-13: "Separation Because of Personality Disorder." It's an alluring choice for a cash-strapped military because enacting it is quick and cheap. The Department of Veterans Affairs doesn't have to provide medical care to soldiers dismissed with personality disorder. That's because under Chapter 5-13, personality disorder is a pre-existing condition. The VA is only required to treat wounds sustained during service.
Soldiers discharged under 5-13 can't collect disability pay either. To receive those benefits, a soldier must be evaluated by a medical board, which must confirm that he is wounded and that his wounds stem from combat. The process takes several months, in contrast with a 5-13 discharge, which can be wrapped up in a few days.
If a soldier dismissed under 5-13 hasn't served out his contract, he has to give back a slice of his re-enlistment bonus as well. That amount is often larger than the soldier's final paycheck. As a result, on the day of their discharge, many injured vets learn that they owe the Army several thousand dollars.
One military official says doctors at his base are doing more than withholding this information from wounded soldiers; they're actually telling them the opposite: that if they go along with a 5-13, they'll get to keep their bonus and receive disability and medical benefits. The official, who demanded anonymity, handles discharge papers at a prominent Army facility. He says the soldiers he works with know they don't have a personality disorder. "But the doctors are telling them, this will get you out quicker, and the VA will take care of you. To stay out of Iraq, a soldier will take that in a heartbeat. What they don't realize is, those things are lies. The soldiers, they don't read the fine print," he says. "They don't know to ask for a med board. They're taking the word of the doctors. Then they sit down with me and find out what a 5-13 really means--they're shocked."
Russell Terry, founder of the Iraq War Veterans Organization (IWVO), says he's watched this scenario play itself out many times. For more than a year, his veterans' rights group has been receiving calls from distraught soldiers discharged under Chapter 5-13. Most, he says, say their military doctors pushed the personality disorder diagnosis, strained to prove that their problems existed before their service in Iraq and refused to acknowledge evidence of posttraumatic stress disorder (PTSD), traumatic brain injury and physical traumas, which would allow them to collect disability and medical benefits.
"These soldiers are coming home from Iraq with all kinds of problems," Terry says. "They go to the VA for treatment, and they're turned away. They're told, 'No, you have a pre-existing condition, something from childhood.'" That leap in logic boils Terry's blood. "Everybody receives a psychological screening when they join the military. What I want to know is, if all these soldiers really did have a severe pre-existing condition, how did they get into the military in the first place?"
Terry says that trying to reverse a 5-13 discharge is a frustrating process. A soldier has to claw through a thicket of paperwork, appeals panels and backstage political dealing, and even with the guidance of an experienced advocate, few are successful. "The 5-13," he says, "it's like a scarlet letter you can't get taken off."
In the last six years the Army has diagnosed and discharged more than 5,600 soldiers because of personality disorder, according to the Defense Department. And the numbers keep rising: 805 cases in 2001, 980 cases in 2003, 1,086 from January to November 2006. "It's getting worse and worse every day," says the official who handles discharge papers. "At my office the numbers started out normal. Now it's up to three or four soldiers each day. It's like, suddenly everybody has a personality disorder."
The reason is simple, he says. "They're saving a buck. And they're saving the VA money too. It's all about money."
Bilmes estimates that each year the VA spends an average of $5,000 in medical care per veteran. Applying those numbers, by discharging 22,500 soldiers because of personality disorder, the military saves $4.5 billion in medical care over their lifetimes.
Town says Fort Carson psychologist Mark Wexler assured him that he would receive disability benefits, VA medical care and that he'd get to keep his bonus--good news he discussed with Christian Fields and Brandon Murray, two soldiers in his unit at Fort Carson. "We talked about it many times," Murray says. "Jon said the doctor there promised him benefits, and he was happy about it. Who wouldn't be?" Town shared that excitement with his wife, Kristy, shortly after his appointment with Wexler. "He said that Wexler had explained to him that he'd get to keep his benefits," Kristy says, "that the doctor had looked into it, and it was all coming with the chapter he was getting."
In fact, Town would not get disability pay or receive long-term VA medical care. And he would have to give back the bulk of his $15,000 bonus. Returning that money meant Town would leave Fort Carson less than empty-handed: He now owed the Army more than $3,000. "We had this on our heads the whole way, driving home to Ohio," says Town. Wexler made him promises, he says, about what would happen if he went along with the diagnosis. "The final day, we find out, none of it was true. It was a total shock. I felt like I'd been betrayed by the Army."
Proud Cap Marine, No I don't feel that the mental health of veterans will be a major issue this election. The candidates are very vocal about when to end the war but neither are anxious to talk about the aftermath are they? With your average family having a hard time just making ends meet, rising fuel costs, etc., I don't think veterans' benefits are going to figure prominently on any one's radar screen. Our concerns about the economy are overshadowing other issues.
My elderly father is a veteran who suffers from PTSD. I've tried to hook him up with what services I can, but right now he is falling through the cracks. My brother, who is a Navy Captain, tried to get him into a VA assisted living facility to no avail. They won't take him because he has "a history of alcohol abuse" and "wanderlust". Classic symptoms of PTSD.
Thank you for actively supporting veterans who are not receiving the help they need. You and I differ politically, (I'm supporting Obama) but share a common concern. I am concerned with the state of our mental health system in general. So many people on the streets with PTSD, schizophrenia, bipolar disorder and nowhere to turn. But that's another thread I guess.
Proud Cap Marine, No I don't feel that the mental health of veterans will be a major issue this election. The candidates are very vocal about when to end the war but neither are anxious to talk about the aftermath are they? With your average family having a hard time just making ends meet, rising fuel costs, etc., I don't think veterans' benefits are going to figure prominently on any one's radar screen. Our concerns about the economy are overshadowing other issues.
My elderly father is a veteran who suffers from PTSD. I've tried to hook him up with what services I can, but right now he is falling through the cracks. My brother, who is a Navy Captain, tried to get him into a VA assisted living facility to no avail. They won't take him because he has "a history of alcohol abuse" and "wanderlust". Classic symptoms of PTSD.
Thank you for actively supporting veterans who are not receiving the help they need. You and I differ politically, (I'm supporting Obama) but share a common concern. I am concerned with the state of our mental health system in general. So many people on the streets with PTSD, schizophrenia, bipolar disorder and nowhere to turn. But that's another thread I guess.
God Bless your father. I hope he gets the care he needs.
PS: My son works in the entertainment industry in LA. He's voting for Obama. (Where did I go wrong...)
Last edited by ProudCapMarine; 06-22-2008 at 09:31 PM..
Reason: addition
To ask others to fight and perhaps die for you and your decisions and then not give them all the support and care they need and deserve is inhuman and below contempt and I DO judge candidates based upon their support...or lack thereof...for veterans.
To ask others to fight and perhaps die for you and your decisions and then not give them all the support and care they need and deserve is inhuman and below contempt and I DO judge candidates based upon their support...or lack thereof...for veterans.
You might want to check how the veteran groups rate Obama v McCain based on their past support of veterans in legislative votes. You might be surprised.
Both parties do a lot of verbal supporting of veterans.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bily4
You might want to check how the veteran groups rate Obama v McCain based on their past support of veterans in legislative votes. You might be surprised.
I would not be surprized at all. Democrats support disabled veterans and veterans (in general) more than Republicans, when it comes to actual voting in Congress.
That is why I call myself an Independent.
Both parties do a lot of verbal supporting of veterans.
Last edited by ProudCapMarine; 06-23-2008 at 03:11 PM..
Reason: added a link to another thread
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Getting some violence in their life ?
This is a great Email group for helping PTSD vets.
