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There is a distinct difference between POW's and the criminal justice system that has been recognized by every nation throughout the history of warfare. We are the only ones, and this is the first time for us, that have allowed POW's access to the criminal justice system.
Guantanamo has been investigated and visited countless times by international agencies and they have never found signs of abuse. The rhetoric about the abuse and concentration camps ignores those facts and is just that - rhetoric.
The problem is that we've turned a bunch of itinerant Afghan farmers into dedicated terrorists. If someone grabbed me, tortured me, kept me imprisoned in a concentration camp for 6-8 years, and then let me go, they should give up sleeping at night because I would spend the rest of my life seeking vengeance.
While I think you are dead-on with what you said here, do you honestly think that we rounded up these people as they were working on their farms?? These detainees were supposedly detained performing acts against the troops. I say supposedly because the question is why is it taking so long to convict these guys? I supported this camp when it opened, but in no way did I think there would still be detainees here over 6 years later. New detainees? Ok.
It's not a concentration camp. Nobody is being gassed and the detainees are being fed quality meals, allowed to pray, and afforded medical care. I don't recall Treblinka providing these services.
There is a distinct difference between POW's and the criminal justice system that has been recognized by every nation throughout the history of warfare. We are the only ones, and this is the first time for us, that have allowed POW's access to the criminal justice system.
Guantanamo has been investigated and visited countless times by international agencies and they have never found signs of abuse. The rhetoric about the abuse and concentration camps ignores those facts and is just that - rhetoric.
What absolute nonsense Are these POWs or criminals? If criminals then they have the protection of the criminal justice system. If POWs then they have the protection of the Geneva Convention. They have been afforded neither protection.
BTW there's no such thing as an "illegal enemy combatant." One is a combatant or a civilian, treatment of both is covered by the Geneva Convention. Neither civilian law nor the Geneva Convention allows coercive questioning of anyone.
What do you call GITMO if not a concentration camp?
There is a distinct difference between POW's and the criminal justice system that has been recognized by every nation throughout the history of warfare. We are the only ones, and this is the first time for us, that have allowed POW's access to the criminal justice system.
Guantanamo has been investigated and visited countless times by international agencies and they have never found signs of abuse. The rhetoric about the abuse and concentration camps ignores those facts and is just that - rhetoric.
I wish Americans cared more about the treatment of our POW/MIA's in Southeast Asia than the detainees who are receiving food, shelter, medical care, and prayer mats. One detainee that was actually sent back said the conditions at Guantanamo were better than where he lived!
You think the 60 year olds who are speaking out against Guantanamo today are the 30 year olds demanding to know where our POW/MIA's are from the Vietnamese goverment back in the 70's??
While I think you are dead-on with what you said here, do you honestly think that we rounded up these people as they were working on their farms?? These detainees were supposedly detained performing acts against the troops. I say supposedly because the question is why is it taking so long to convict these guys? I supported this camp when it opened, but in no way did I think there would still be detainees here over 6 years later. New detainees? Ok.
It's not a concentration camp. Nobody is being gassed and the detainees are being fed quality meals, allowed to pray, and afforded medical care. I don't recall Treblinka providing these services.
The water boarding, solitary confinement, stress position questioning, threatening with attack dogs? None of that is allowed in a POW camp where the inhabitants are require to be treated well, just not allowed free
Quote:
(Article 13): "...Prisoners of war must at all times be protected, particularly against acts of violence or intimidation and against insults and public curiosity."
(Article 17): "No physical or mental torture, nor any other form of coercion, may be inflicted on prisoners of war to secure from them information of any kind whatever. Prisoners of war who refuse to answer may not be threatened, insulted or exposed to unpleasant or disadvantageous treatment of any kind."
(Article 25): "Prisoners of war shall be quartered under conditions as favorable as those for the forces of the Detaining Power who are billeted in the same area."
It's not necessary to be murdering the prisoners for a camp to be a concentration camp. The German's aren't the only people to have operated such camps.
I wish Americans cared more about the treatment of our POW/MIA's in Southeast Asia than the detainees who are receiving food, shelter, medical care, and prayer mats. One detainee that was actually sent back said the conditions at Guantanamo were better than where he lived!
You think the 60 year olds who are speaking out against Guantanamo today are the 30 year olds demanding to know where our POW/MIA's are from the Vietnamese goverment back in the 70's??
I was in the military is the 70s and I'm outraged at how the prisoners in GITMO are treated. I was also outraged at how our prisoners were treated in Vietnam. Until Bush came along I though we were better people than the Communists.
The water boarding, solitary confinement, stress position questioning, threatening with attack dogs? None of that is allowed in a POW camp where the inhabitants are require to be treated well, just not allowed free
It's not necessary to be murdering the prisoners for a camp to be a concentration camp. The German's aren't the only people to have operated such camps.
No, but those camps are exactly what you are comparing them too.
As for the water boarding, I don't agree with the practice. Not sure what RELIABLE information can be obtained from someone who is being water boarded. If I were being water boarded, I would tell my accusers whatever they wanted to hear. Now, if water boarding produced legitimate results and enabled our military to prevent other attacks or led to capturing more enemies than I would support it.
Anyway, Gitmo has been visited by independent groups and the so called abuses were debunked. I wish our own citizens were afforded the same items that the Gitmo detainees have been afforded. Unfortunately, our citizens wind up beheaded or mutilated. Perhaps your efforts would be best used to argue against the treatment of our own, no?
What absolute nonsense Are these POWs or criminals? If criminals then they have the protection of the criminal justice system. If POWs then they have the protection of the Geneva Convention. They have been afforded neither protection.
They are POWs. However, given their chosen methods of warfare, they do not fall under the Geneva Convention. Even with that distinction, there is no evidence of maltreatment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rlchurch
BTW there's no such thing as an "illegal enemy combatant." One is a combatant or a civilian, treatment of both is covered by the Geneva Convention. Neither civilian law nor the Geneva Convention allows coercive questioning of anyone.
What do you call GITMO if not a concentration camp?
You're playing semantics. I don't care of if you want to call it a concentration camp or a military prison or a pow camp, you're talking about the systematic mistreatment of people and there is no evidence, after many investigations, to support your claim.
The Geneva Convention clearly states who it covers, and these people are not covered by it. They do not fall under the convention because of the way they choose to fight, not because of anything we created.
I was in the military is the 70s and I'm outraged at how the prisoners in GITMO are treated. I was also outraged at how our prisoners were treated in Vietnam. Until Bush came along I though we were better people than the Communists.
It is sad to see how much ignorance the lock step liberals show on topics of national security.
I thank you for your confession. Now look in the mirror and realize who it was you were accusing.
Dems never agree on anything with solidarity, but when they do agree, and repubs and libertarians agree with them, suddenly we're "lock step"? I can understand you feel threatened, losing your blankie, that facist tactics won't be allowed here anymore once bush leaves office and democracy is restored, but to hide behind the very flag you're spitting on is morally repugnant.
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