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Old 02-10-2010, 09:40 AM
 
436 posts, read 753,881 times
Reputation: 214

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Quote:
Originally Posted by saganista View Post
Why not live in the real world for a change, Doctor? You spout off this imaginary right-wing babble as if you were no more than some bitter, out of work, x-ray tech. The ACLU defends the free speech rights of everyone. They have defended the free speech rights of Nazi's, the KKK, and NAMBLA, none of whose programs they support. By what halucination do you imagine that they are after a bunch of disconnected Tea Party types?
Defending pedophiles like NAMBLA is mostly what is wrong with the ACLU, oh and that freedom of speech thing, under political correctness there are many things you cannot say, freedom of speech right. The ACLU is a bad organization and there is no way I will beleve otherwise, oh and the tea party thing count me in as I don't want higher taxes. I can use my money better than the government can.
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Old 02-10-2010, 10:03 AM
 
3,704 posts, read 4,159,461 times
Reputation: 2231
Quote:
Originally Posted by FLIGHTSIMMER View Post
Defending pedophiles like NAMBLA is mostly what is wrong with the ACLU, oh and that freedom of speech thing, under political correctness there are many things you cannot say, freedom of speech right. The ACLU is a bad organization and there is no way I will beleve otherwise, oh and the tea party thing count me in as I don't want higher taxes. I can use my money better than the government can.
The NAMBLA defense was to allow NAMBLA to state their opinion. As opposed to allow them to publish child pornography or to molest children. I don't like NAMBLA, but there is a difference between trying to make an intellectual case for pederasty (which is pretty lousy) and raping children.

Also, ALCU is almost entirely concerned with state and Federal violations of rights. There is no real official enforcement of political correctness. It is mostly confined to universities and other private and semi-private institutions. While I agree that today's world of speech codes stifle honest discussion and are more concerned about feel-good measures than anything else, it is mostly enforced by non-government entities, which the ACLU has no mandate to litigate against.

I would also like to point out that the ACLU has also defended the KKK and neo-Nazi groups in free speech trials. I haven't exactly heard anyone call the Klan or skinheads "PC".
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Old 02-10-2010, 10:12 AM
 
Location: Purgatory (A.K.A. Dallas, Texas)
5,010 posts, read 12,852,754 times
Reputation: 2414
Freedom of speech means not only speech that you agree with, but speech that you are radically and fundamentally opposed to.
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Old 02-10-2010, 11:25 AM
 
973 posts, read 1,100,167 times
Reputation: 384
"The ACLU is our nation's guardian of liberty, working daily in courts, legislatures and communities to defend and preserve the individual rights and liberties that the Constitution and laws of the United States guarantee everyone in this country." "Because Freedom can't protect itself."
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Old 02-10-2010, 12:33 PM
 
Location: Michigan
12,715 posts, read 11,244,048 times
Reputation: 4111
Quote:
Originally Posted by hawkeye2009 View Post
That is rich. A liberal talking about free speech. Libs hate free speech unless it is in complete agreement with thier viewpoints. Otherwise, it needs to be banned! Witness the "Tea Parties".
LOL, yes of course, we all saw how those tea parties were violently broken up, Tiananmen Square style.

Apparently in some people's minds, being commonly thought of as a douchebag is the same as censorship. I'm not sure how they make that connection.

Quote:
Why not send some union members to break up any opposition and get that "civilian army" together? I guess while you are at it, turn over this internet post to your masters in the White House, as the administration had requested. I am wondering when Obama is going to put up the "Big Brother" posters and if they will have that nice 'fish eye" effect.
I am wondering when you are going to ask one of those nice men who make $125 an hour to give you something that will make all the voices in your head go away.
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Old 02-11-2010, 04:13 AM
 
241 posts, read 213,051 times
Reputation: 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by jackmccullough View Post
This is a great quote. What's it from?

I'm always amazed at people who can gleefully argue for the suppression of political views they disagree with and seem completely unaware that the exact same principles could be used against them.
Last track from this album


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UiqCswR6KRQ
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Old 02-11-2010, 04:20 AM
 
241 posts, read 213,051 times
Reputation: 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by FLIGHTSIMMER View Post
under political correctness there are many things you cannot say
What are you talking about? "Political correctness" isn't a law and anyone who complains about it as such clearly labels themselves a neocon.

Say what you like, but if you offend someone expect to be sued. That goes for anyone, regardless of politics.
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Old 02-11-2010, 06:37 AM
 
19,183 posts, read 27,817,818 times
Reputation: 4000
Quote:
Originally Posted by FLIGHTSIMMER View Post
Defending pedophiles like NAMBLA is mostly what is wrong with the ACLU...
The ACLU did not and does not support pedophilia. They did not in this case -- but certainly would have had it been an issue -- defend the right of NAMBLA to advocate for the elimination of state age-of-consent laws. What the ACLU argued against in the Curley case was attachment of liability for an expression of thought or opinion. The best example in the thread is that of the NRA. They openly advocate for gun ownership and for the use of guns by minors from an early age. But if a six year-old takes a gun to school and proceeds to kill a classmate, the NRA is not responsible for that wrongful death, even if the kid had been perusing Dad's NRA materials just before leaving for school. Make sure here that you do not let the difference in your opinion of the NRA versus NAMBLA color your thinking. Free speech is not just for those you happen to like. It is for everyone. Even those you flat out hate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FLIGHTSIMMER View Post
...oh and that freedom of speech thing, under political correctness there are many things you cannot say, freedom of speech right.
As has been pointed out already, speech codes are commonly found within the bounds of schools and the workplace. Like it or not, you effectively surrender some of your rights by maintaining an association with these sorts of organizations. You can and often enough will be fired on the spot for violation of corporate speech codes, particularly if you happen to work in a right-to-work state or otherwise lack any form if union protection. Your employment is typically at-will and conditional upon your being able to work effectively and cooperatively with others toward corporate ends and purposes. Incivil or other prejudicial outbursts violate that condition and may be usd as grounds for discipline, including termination. What schools profess to be doing with their speech codes is first, reducing occasions of incitements to violence, and second, preparing students for the probability of ultimately working in a cooperative corporate environment. Still schools do not have the same at-will liberty to act against speech that corporations do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FLIGHTSIMMER View Post
The ACLU is a bad organization and there is no way I will beleve otherwise...
Not even if it were the case that the ACLU has been historically opposed to campus speech codes, and that one of their board members in fact successfully argued NAMBLA plaintiff Robert Curley's case against an assignment to mandatory diversity training that had been imposed by his employer? Maybe you don't know quite as much about the ACLU's positions as you ought to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FLIGHTSIMMER View Post
...oh and the tea party thing count me in as I don't want higher taxes. I can use my money better than the government can.
That's not at issue. Your definition of "my money" might be, however. No less than any other person, you are obligated through your status as a member and beneficiary of society to contribute a lawfully defined amount of your income from whatever source derived to help in defraying the costs of those things that we have chosen to do collectively (communist word). That obligation constitutes a lien that may be legally enforced against you if you fail to meet it voluntarily, raising the question of whether you have any right to call it "yours" at all. It may be more apt to consider it as akin to the bottom number on the tab that the waiter leaves at your table after you have eaten at a more upscale restaurant. That's not yours any more either.
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Old 02-13-2010, 11:58 AM
 
Location: North Port, FL
49 posts, read 82,810 times
Reputation: 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by FLIGHTSIMMER View Post
don't kid you're self the ACLU is for anything to weaken and bring down this country, we can't profile terrorists, we get them a layer when we catch them because suddenly they have all these rights despite the fact that they are not citizens. The ACLU is bad and you will never convince me otherwise.
Here is a prime example of why the ACLU is vital in protecting the rights which are guaranteed under our Constitution. This could happen to any of us who travel. t r u t h o u t | Student Detained at Airport Over Possession of Arabic Flashcards
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Old 02-13-2010, 02:42 PM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,107 posts, read 34,458,979 times
Reputation: 4893
Quote:
Originally Posted by saganista View Post
The ACLU did not and does not support pedophilia. They did not in this case -- .
Correct - they did not support pedophilia. At least not directly. However, their support of NAMBLA in any shape, fashion or form, does, in fact, have the IMPACT of allowing NAMBLA and the scumbag members of NAMBLA to promote their dirty deeds, is something that the ACLU could have realized they would be doing. The ACLU could have chosen NOT to take on this particular case because of the parties involved.
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