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mikeo421 not all people of Europe or other areas are against capitalism,I know this because I have engaged some in Britian,Holland and New Zealand that are pro capitalism.Then again some aren't,but neither is everybody of the same mindset in America.
I don't think some people realize the power they have with internet.No middleman,no hearsay,no media.Talk to someone one on one and it opens the dialoge,dispells the stereotypes and gives a direct understanding more.And what you say as a mini Ambassador to others can make real change in the world on a individual level.I know this because I have engaged and seen people who at first was against me change their minds after.
Approach them with a thick skin,if they slander you respond with debate but not return slander.You may change them,they may change you or maybe just continue to disagree but at least you will know face to face how and why they are.
People in a sense have more power to change things with internet engaging people than a politician does with a envoy to a nation.And that's why some countries are so fearful of their people having access to the outside.
I need to find out if I am lonely in my thoughts about this:
I do not give a rat's a$$ how other nations, namely European nations, view the U.S.A..
I could not give 2 sh--- that some Frenchman or Brit or Swede or Italian or German or Russian calls Americans arrogant or what ever they call us.
Whenever there is a nation in trouble we are ALWAYS the first ones to help. Earthquakes, floods, typhoons, tsunamis, The US gives tremendous amounts of aid around the world. We are a noble Nation yet Europeans cant stand us. That says more about their aloof mentality then anything else. I say this because I see said mentality gushing from the Obama campaign.
You are reading more into it than what is there. The so-called "European hatred for the US" is entirely US media driven. Only when there is a Republican administration will the US media go on and on about how everyone hates the US. Whenever there is a Democrat administration, the US media is either silent on the subject or emphasizing how everyone loves the US. So consider the source.
My experience living in Europe is that most Europeans like Americans, a few are ambivalent, and even fewer still dislike Americans.
You are reading more into it than what is there. The so-called "European hatred for the US" is entirely US media driven. Only when there is a Republican administration will the US media go on and on about how everyone hates the US. Whenever there is a Democrat administration, the US media is either silent on the subject or emphasizing how everyone loves the US. So consider the source.
My experience living in Europe is that most Europeans like Americans, a few are ambivalent, and even fewer still dislike Americans.
Its incredible how people's minds in this country are basically controlled by the media.
Here is the rub, AJ. There is a significant class in this country (not in numbers, but influence) who are, shall we say, fawning towards Europe and all things European. They name their children with odd sounding, quasi-European names; they watch incredibly boring, pretentious French "films," and generally carp and complain about how bumptious and uneducated their countrymen are. I think it is a thinly veiled, Januarian inferiority (of their own country) / superiority (towards their countrymen) complex. They just need to have validation from their European betters. Read Hemingway. It's not new.
I am an adopted American, for what it's worth. We came to this country when I was in school; we could have moved to Europe, but its stifling, racist, xenophobic, and archaic structures made it (and continue to make it) undesirable. I think Europeans (and I am not naive to the EU), if you scratch the surface, recognise that they are not the Lords of the Earth anymore. They do not set culture; they surely no longer get to go round the Earth with impunity and trying to either make it over in their image or destroy resistance. I think that they recognise that American culture, unlike what they tried to export for 300 years, was ACCEPTED by the rest of the world, and not forced on them with a gun.
The US made mistakes - in Vietnam; in Iraq. But it is not Belgium. We don't have a King Leopold in our history. We are not France. The US is certainly not Spain, who knew a thing or two about imperialism.
Whew! Tell it! Belgium should never criticize anyone about anything. France and Spain should walk around on tiptoe as well. And the Germans and the Italians should keep their heads low. Oh, and let's not get started on the Portuguese..! Europeans depend on Americans not knowing alot of European History or they would never dare criticize us. Talk about glass houses!
Last edited by laysayfair; 06-23-2008 at 06:52 PM..
Reason: typo
For the record, I am not a NeoConservative, so don't try to pin that on me.
The "Native Americans" were pretty well exterminated by the enlightened and civilised Spanish, French, and British, so Americans more or less finished the job. (Note: not an endorsement of the policy; just some context)
Nobody "forgot" any item. The US has baggage (as I said). It's not a perfect country. I know all about Viet Nam and US imperialism in SE Asia (hint: unlike many Americans and Europeans, what I know about the history of East Asia is a result of living in it, not talking a bunch of pseudo-intellectual "consciousness" pabulum over overpriced coffee and cigarettes).
The thread was about why Americans should care about European attitudes. My point in talking as I have is that the Europeans ought to be the LAST people on earth to lecture anyone about imperialism.
I guess, to boil it down, it's about pots and kettles and who ought to be calling whom dark colours.
Might want to look at them setting up shop there.
All you have to do is a little research, called AFRICOM, start there.
Yeah, what we did to the Native Americans, any other country we've fought in as well.
The 18th Century to the end of the 19th Century (and including the early 20th Century) was a horrible time for native peoples everyone. The US is by no means unique by its conquest and mistreatment of its native peoples. Canada, Australia, New Zealand (less so than the others), Mexico, Brazil, Colombia, and pretty much the rest of Latin America have a history regarding their native peoples that is just as bad and in some cases even worse than the US. In fact, many South Americans seem proud that native civilizations were destroyed.
How about the Mai Lai massacre? Or don't you know about that, either?
What about the Hue Massacre or any of the hundreds of other massacres or tens of thousands of assassinations that the NVA and Viet Cong conducted while active in South Vietnam? Don't you think its a little unfair to harp on about an atrocity (and others) that were relatively rare and not part of official policy while completely ignoring countless massacres committed by the other side that WERE part of their official policy? You might respond with "We're not talking about the Viet Cong or the NVA, we're talking about the United States", but if you do go by that logic, than you are completely taking American actions (legal and illegal, sanctioned and unsanctioned) out of context.
How about overthrowing duly elected governments in South America?
My problem with this is that it completely discounts Soviet involvement in South America and it also discounts that South Americans have been quite capable of overthrowing governments without US involvement. The most common case mentioned is Augusto Pinochet's overthrow of Allende. Never mind that Allende won only about a third of the vote and considered it a mandate to enact many unpopular and destructive policies, never mind that he was tied to a small army of street thugs who attacked and often murdered critics and opponents (which was the exact same thing Batista did), never mind that declassified documents show that Allende was taking payments from the KGB (*gasp* it appears the Soviets were interfering with the internal affairs other countries), never mind he mused that "emergencies" might develop that would require the suspension of voting, never mind that he frequently mentioned the Brezhnev Doctrine* during political debates, and so on. He sounds really democratic to me.
*For those who don't know what the Brezhnev Doctrine was, it was a policy stating that once a country had become socialist, it was to forever remain socialist. Allende's comments were effectively saying that if he were to lose the election, the USSR and its allies might intervene in Chile.
Oops, forget that item, too?
No. The biggest problem is context. You have to look at it compared to history and according to how everyone else was acting. You can't imply the US is imperialist when not only was it's actions regarding other nations were/are far more mild than nations that actually were imperialist, but were actually less extreme than many of its competitors in recent times.
But it doesn't negate that the US took these actions.
People tend to either say the US wasn't as bad as (fill in the blank). Bogus argument because we did do the same things, in the name of my country.
The 18th Century to the end of the 19th Century (and including the early 20th Century) was a horrible time for native peoples everyone.
Yet, posters on this thread are condemning the Europeans without acknowledging that the US did the same.
That's the part that gets my goat.
But it doesn't negate that the US took these actions.
People tend to either say the US wasn't as bad as (fill in the blank). Bogus argument because we did do the same things, in the name of my country.
Of course it doesn't negate American actions. I can name countless horrible actions committed by the US. However, in historical context, America isn't particularly bad. I would go as so far as to say that America has been the most benign major power in history.
The 18th Century to the end of the 19th Century (and including the early 20th Century) was a horrible time for native peoples everyone.
Yet, posters on this thread are condemning the Europeans without acknowledging that the US did the same.
To be fair, it was the European powers who did colonize the Americas and Oceania and many of the worst incidents in the founding of what would later become the USA, Canada, the Latin American nations, Australia, and New Zealand happened under the rule of Great Britain, France, Spain, Portugal, and the Netherlands. The Spanish conquests of South America and Central America were bloody even by the standards of the time and they also inadvertently brought along a variety of Old World diseases like influenza, tuberculosis, smallpox, and so on that killed off much of the native population from Peru to northern Canada.
So I think it is fair to mention those facts when someone attacks New World nations--or more commonly--the United States for all the crimes, mistreatment, and deaths of the native populations, when it was Europeans who committed some of the worst atrocities to settle the New World.
It should also be mentioned on where else have native peoples been able to get some measure of retroactive justice other than the United States, New Zealand, Canada, and Australia when how Latin American nations are still taking away land from their Indians (look at Brazil) or taking away the land of less developed minority ethnic groups (mostly in Asia)?
That's the part that gets my goat.
America really isn't that bad and when it is bad, most of its negative qualities can be compared to other countries in its time that aren't usually thought of a particularly bad.
My text in bold.
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