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I remember my sister-in-law was deeply offended because he once said "if black people are ever going to get ahead we have to start working together and stop depending on them to do it for us"
Your sister-in-law realizes that he's talking about two parties- "Black people" and "them".
If you're not "Black people" then you are "them". Your sister-in-law ain't no fool. She understands the implication of that. If I went to a church where a white pastor said " we as White people have to start working together..." I would be so offended. I would know I was being left out and I would resent it and wonder what kind of God makes those distinctions and send those messages.
Last edited by laysayfair; 06-25-2008 at 10:07 AM..
Reason: typo
laysayfair, I understand what you are saying, but it goes a little deeper than that. Black churches that are located in neighborhoods that are 85-95% black that are facing statistics such as 60% unemployment by black males, 65% of kids haven't graduated high school & 90% don't live in 2 parent households, these are extreme problems that are keeping entire communites in an endless cycle of crime and teenage pregnancy and economic desperation. Yes, I know the answer to all of these problems is personal responsibility, but if the church community can count on each other to provide emotional and spiritual support they are more likely to be able to overcome these problems. Most members of white churches don't face anywhere near the problems that the members of these black churches face. My opinion is that if the sermon is helping the church members and trying to bring about change and positivity in the community, then go for it, as long as they are not preaching hate, which it doesn't seem that they are, I am all for anything that brings about a change in mentality.
I didn't take any particular offense to the "us" and "them" remarks, once I re-read the account and knew the context. I think LLLL98 is probably right; it was not a confrontational "us" vs. "them", it was essentially comparable to saying "us at this table" and "the people sitting over there".
laysayfair, I understand what you are saying, but it goes a little deeper than that. Black churches that are located in neighborhoods that are 85-95% black that are facing statistics such as 60% unemployment by black males, 65% of kids haven't graduated high school & 90% don't live in 2 parent households, these are extreme problems that are keeping entire communites in an endless cycle of crime and teenage pregnancy and economic desperation. Yes, I know the answer to all of these problems is personal responsibility, but if the church community can count on each other to provide emotional and spiritual support they are more likely to be able to overcome these problems. Most members of white churches don't face anywhere near the problems that the members of these black churches face. My opinion is that if the sermon is helping the church members and trying to bring about change and positivity in the community, then go for it, as long as they are not preaching hate, which it doesn't seem that they are, I am all for anything that brings about a change in mentality.
The black church preaches the "us vs. them" mentality. This is not good for anyone involved.
laysayfair, I understand what you are saying, but it goes a little deeper than that. Black churches that are located in neighborhoods that are 85-95% black that are facing statistics such as 60% unemployment by black males, 65% of kids haven't graduated high school & 90% don't live in 2 parent households, these are extreme problems that are keeping entire communites in an endless cycle of crime and teenage pregnancy and economic desperation. Yes, I know the answer to all of these problems is personal responsibility, but if the church community can count on each other to provide emotional and spiritual support they are more likely to be able to overcome these problems. Most members of white churches don't face anywhere near the problems that the members of these black churches face. My opinion is that if the sermon is helping the church members and trying to bring about change and positivity in the community, then go for it, as long as they are not preaching hate, which it doesn't seem that they are, I am all for anything that brings about a change in mentality.
I will chalk it up to the Pastors youth and inexperience. When he is older, wiser, more experienced, kinder and more humble he will be able to make all his points without alienating anyone in the church and making them feel unwelcome. He (hopefully) will be more Christlike.
The black church preaches the "us vs. them" mentality. This is not good for anyone involved.
123cop, these are quotes from you on another thread,
Quote:
All of us.. white, black, yellow, orange... men, women.. gay,straight..
We are all rooting for the black race to turn it around. We are all Americans and are in this thing together. But it's seriously getting old and we are running out of patience.
Quote:
As a % of their race, more black babies are born out of wedlock
As a % of their race, more blacks are in prison, parole and probabation
Those are the stats. The black race as a whole is failing miserably. Yes, some whites and asians and others are failing. And yes, some blacks are very successful. But as a WHOLE, the black race is not keeping pace with the rest of society.
The blacks will conveniently point fingers at cops and white people. When they should be pointing fingers at the hip hop culture, drug use, terrible parents, the lack of responsible young black men and self pity.
You yourself have separated "us" (black people) out as having a serious problem that needs to be fixed and "you" (white people and others) are losing patience. If you are truly rooting for the "black race to turn it around", why can't the black church have a hand in doing so?
Also, as others have clearly stated, it is not an "us vs. them" mentality. It's a "let's lift ourselves up without the help of other forces (e.g. welfare and other government help)" mentality. It's like some non-blacks want to complain about the ills of the "black community", don't want to offer solutions, and shoot down any solutions that may actually help.
I will chalk it up to the Pastors youth and inexperience. When he is older, wiser, more experienced, kinder and more humble he will be able to make all his points without alienating anyone in the church and making them feel unwelcome. He (hopefully) will be more Christlike.
I'm going to correct you because you don't know what you're talking about. My pastor said what he said because that's what he meant. He was talking to the congregation and the people who live in that are which I have stated before is predominantly black. When he preaches about women and how we need to do better no one accuses him of being sexist.
I'm going to repeat what he says because obvioulsy you don't get it, if you're heart and mind are in the right place (and since you're in church it needs to be on God) than you would understand exactly what he meant and you wouldn't be offended by it. Anyone who feels unwelcome or alienated by him should have stayed home because they weren't in church for the right reason in the first place
My pastor is very active in our community and so for him to get up there and ignore what had been going would have been offensive. Our church is right of MLK Blvd which is where the majority of the crime had been taking place and all of the crimes involved black teenagers. So who was offended by his comment? The mother of one of the boys accused of shooting someone? The sister of one of the girls who got pulled out of a moving car? The storeowner that's been robbedfour times?
No, my sister-in-law who is mixed and doesn't even live in that community and everytime she comes to visit looks for new ways to point out how racist we are.
However, since you don't go to church there it really doesn't matter in the long run.
I'm not the boss of anybody, here, and not a moderator, but I just wanted to interject this: Please, everybody, let's all stay civil and calm. I have nobody in particular in mind when I ask this, and I am not presuming to call anybody down, just wanted to try and prevent this turning into a big old flame war before it gets headed in that direction.
Most of what I am hearing about black churches sounds good. I hope I get the chance to attend one.
I'm not the boss of anybody, here, and not a moderator, but I just wanted to interject this: Please, everybody, let's all stay civil and calm. I have nobody in particular in mind when I ask this, and I am not presuming to call anybody down, just wanted to try and prevent this turning into a big old flame war before it gets headed in that direction.
Most of what I am hearing about black churches sounds good. I hope I get the chance to attend one.
What area do you live in? I would think in GA you couldn't walk a mile without running into a black church
This is one of the few threads I've found recently where I feel like just reading (listening) and learning something.
Thanks to all who are posting positively. Please keep it up.
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