POLL: Democrats are calling for nationalization of the oil industry. Do you feel the government should also nationalize (Pelosi, environmentalists)

[babyorr9]

Originally Posted by Pawporri

They have just reported profits higher than any business in the history of
human civilization. Exxon just settled an ongoing lawsuit for $200million.
(Exxon Valdez)This suit originally charged $20 billion and they fought it to the supreme court for years and years. Their CEO just received $147million income for last year.
For sure I'm not one who begrudges large salaries paid by shareholders, but
all these figures only add up when gas is at $4.00/gallon. Supply and demand play their roles too. Congress plays their roles and there is a lot of blame there. I mean we pay them exorbitant salaries to foresee future problems.
I could react after the fact like anyone but I don't get the big bucks to do so.
My point here is that they need to get busy and investigate, enact laws etc. to help their constituency who are suffering. "Provide for the common welfare..." Sound familiar ?

Too familiar. Its shoddy politics to say that just because a constituency is suffering that more laws must be enacted. The laws won't change the suffering and they'll just get worse. The government solution to a problem is usually as bad as the problem. Punitive measures against corporations that are doing there job and bringing us the most gasoline at the cheapest price is an idiot's solution. If you can find a solution to pump more from the ground as China devours more EVERY SINGLE DAY then you too would deserve millions. Either increase supply or reduce demand though alternatives. One or the other, supply and demand issues ARE the problem. Trying to punish someone because you don't like the fact they make money is as bad as gouging a consumer.

[jmarquise]

LMAO at that video. if this crazy broad is any indication of the way obama supporters think, we are in trouble. this lady is a freaking idiot.

Originally Posted by ProudCapMarine

Democrats are calling for nationalization of the oil industry. Do you feel the government should also nationalize America's farmland.
Video "Cavuto nat" | sevenload

[jmarquise]

was wal mart not small once? it's just when someone becomes too successful that you have a problem. hmmmmm.

Originally Posted by GregW

I am politically active because I am a patriotic American! I am a socialist because that system is far more protective of individual rights and more economically productive than either communism or fascism.

The natural monopolies should be owned by the government. Busineses should be limited to small size and market economics. I would like to break up, for example, Wal-mart and Archer Daniels Midland.

[Pawporri]

Originally Posted by babyorr9

Too familiar. Its shoddy politics to say that just because a constituency is suffering that more laws must be enacted. The laws won't change the suffering and they'll just get worse. The government solution to a problem is usually as bad as the problem. Punitive measures against corporations that are doing there job and bringing us the most gasoline at the cheapest price is an idiot's solution. If you can find a solution to pump more from the ground as China devours more EVERY SINGLE DAY then you too would deserve millions. Either increase supply or reduce demand though alternatives. One or the other, supply and demand issues ARE the problem. Trying to punish someone because you don't like the fact they make money is as bad as gouging a consumer.

The antitrust laws make it illegal to form monopolies. Ask Bill Gates how they used it on him. But the oil comanies are ok to do the same thing. Its shoddy poliics to selectively apply the law and makes me very suspicious, as it should make anyone. Only an idiot would believe that big oil hasn't built a refinery in over 30 years because they can't They know they can refine and pump more but that would cut into profits and end their monopoly if government allowed others to build and drill - but the red tape prevents it and that is purposeful, in my opinion. If you really believe more demand is the problem that is your choice, but all your rhetoric and name calling won't change anything. I smell a rat and everyone just keeps on talking. Gringrich is the only one that seems to get anything done and he ain't even in congress anymore. Alternatives are great but what when are we going to see jetlines that fly on woodchips. That one is due in a few weeks, right ?

[the_pines]

Another thing is this. A lot of people are calling for more extensive oil drilling in the United States. One thing is I don't like the idea of using up all of our resources unless we HAVE to. Another thing is, that companies would be making a huge profit from land owned by our own people. We would be paying them to charge us more for it. Then if we nationalize them, how in the world would we ever know if the national entity that is responsible for their overseeing is in fact legit? Its not like government cant be bought.

Bah. Its a lose lose situation because the US people are intent on ignoring subversive and divise political networks operating in our government. If somebody said we're going to make a watchdog group to oversee the nationalized oil drilling efforts, to ensure its purest integrity possible is upheld, i'd be all for it. At least there would be a chance our nations resources wouldn't fall in to the wrong hands.

At the same time, it seems like a defeatist strategy. Its a bandaid fix. I'd rather see a national initiative and grants given to universities to find a fast alternative, that doesn't create pollution, and is much more affordable than gasoline.

I'd LOVE to know WTF is going on with people these days. Where in the world does it say we can not create a massive university fund, and prize plate, to try and find viable alternatives asap from the private sector? Nobody is going to convince me that alternatives are hard to come by. You cant honestly believe that we can go to space, and see molecular particles, and realize changes in atomic structures but we cant find another way to propel an engine? YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING ME RIGHT?

I'm going to level with you guys. I think kids in middle school could probably come up with a viable alternative. If universities cant, they might as well just close up shop. That's beyond pathetic. Why even bother to go to a university if the university is teaching a fourth grade cirriculum.

[babyorr9]

Originally Posted by Pawporri

The antitrust laws make it illegal to form monopolies. Ask Bill Gates how they used it on him. But the oil comanies are ok to do the same thing. Its shoddy poliics to selectively apply the law and makes me very suspicious, as it should make anyone. Only an idiot would believe that big oil hasn't built a refinery in over 30 years because they can't They know they can refine and pump more but that would cut into profits and end their monopoly if government allowed others to build and drill - but the red tape prevents it and that is purposeful, in my opinion. If you really believe more demand is the problem that is your choice, but all your rhetoric and name calling won't change anything. I smell a rat and everyone just keeps on talking. Gringrich is the only one that seems to get anything done and he ain't even in congress anymore. Alternatives are great but what when are we going to see jetlines that fly on woodchips. That one is due in a few weeks, right ?

Uh, oil refineries aren't built because the environmentalists don't want them. Arizona Clean Fuels has been trying to build a refinery outside Yuma for almost 10 years. It took 5 just to get clean air permits...So, what were you saying about big oil colluding to drive up prices? Oh, and as demand for oil in America begins to taper as pinched consumers start to cut back, which economy has 1.3 billion people and an economy that grows at 8-10% a year, whose need for energy is projected to increase by 150% by 2020? Yeah, our friendly Chinese trading buddies. As world demand outstrips supply, we'd hardly need the men in black, the illuminati, or *gasp* EXXON to drive up prices. The fundamental laws of economics do that already. Now, if having an external enemy to point the blame at, or a boogeyman like Exxon, makes you feel better, go for it. However, the sooner we realize that there are no quick fixes to our energy problems and take steps to correct them, and not just whine about the monsters under the bed, the better off we'll be.

[Pawporri]

Originally Posted by the_pines

Another thing is this. A lot of people are calling for more extensive oil drilling in the United States. One thing is I don't like the idea of using up all of our resources unless we HAVE to. Another thing is, that companies would be making a huge profit from land owned by our own people. We would be paying them to charge us more for it. Then if we nationalize them, how in the world would we ever know if the national entity that is responsible for their overseeing is in fact legit? Its not like government cant be bought.

Bah. Its a lose lose situation because the US people are intent on ignoring subversive and divise political networks operating in our government. If somebody said we're going to make a watchdog group to oversee the nationalized oil drilling efforts, to ensure its purest integrity possible is upheld, i'd be all for it. At least there would be a chance our nations resources wouldn't fall in to the wrong hands.

At the same time, it seems like a defeatist strategy. Its a bandaid fix. I'd rather see a national initiative and grants given to universities to find a fast alternative, that doesn't create pollution, and is much more affordable than gasoline.

I'd LOVE to know WTF is going on with people these days. Where in the world does it say we can not create a massive university fund, and prize plate, to try and find viable alternatives asap from the private sector? Nobody is going to convince me that alternatives are hard to come by. You cant honestly believe that we can go to space, and see molecular particles, and realize changes in atomic structures but we cant find another way to propel an engine? YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING ME RIGHT?

I'm going to level with you guys. I think kids in middle school could probably come up with a viable alternative. If universities cant, they might as well just close up shop. That's beyond pathetic. Why even bother to go to a university if the university is teaching a fourth grade cirriculum.

What do expect when we pay huge salaries to execs at GM, for example. Yesterday their stock was at iys lowest since 1975 - You know when Detroit was making the big gas hog cars and then Toyota & Honda came in with small cars and took away their market. (Kind of like the SUV's today) "Those that can't remember the past etc. And these are the imbeciles we expect to anticipate another future oil shortage. They couldn't figure it out then.
Honda just produced the first hydrogen car - GM and Ford, HELLO OUT THERE- Where have you guys been. You shouldv'e known that big oil was going to dump you sooner or later.

[Pawporri]

Originally Posted by babyorr9

Uh, oil refineries aren't built because the environmentalists don't want them. Arizona Clean Fuels has been trying to build a refinery outside Yuma for almost 10 years. It took 5 just to get clean air permits...So, what were you saying about big oil colluding to drive up prices? Oh, and as demand for oil in America begins to taper as pinched consumers start to cut back, which economy has 1.3 billion people and an economy that grows at 8-10% a year, whose need for energy is projected to increase by 150% by 2020? Yeah, our friendly Chinese trading buddies. As world demand outstrips supply, we'd hardly need the men in black, the illuminati, or *gasp* EXXON to drive up prices. The fundamental laws of economics do that already. Now, if having an external enemy to point the blame at, or a boogeyman like Exxon, makes you feel better, go for it. However, the sooner we realize that there are no quick fixes to our energy problems and take steps to correct them, and not just whine about the monsters under the bed, the better off we'll be.

Check the next 2 posts. Some of what you say makes sense. China is the country making pollution free coal refineries. Why can't we do that.
Big Oil just loves the arguments about environmentalists being the boogey men. They just keep raising prices while we argue about it.

[walidm]

Originally Posted by paullySC

What a bunch of communist. And you call yourselves Americans.

President Lincoln was a communist?

[babyorr9]

Originally Posted by Pawporri

Check the next 2 posts. Some of what you say makes sense. China is the country making pollution free coal refineries. Why can't we do that.
Big Oil just loves the arguments about environmentalists being the boogey men. They just keep raising prices while we argue about it.

The oil companies don't set the market...They just produce the commodity. And while coal can be made cleaner, its still not clean. No matter what an advertisement says. The refiners Valero and Tesoro, check their stock price. Then look at the crack spread. We need to kill this idea that "BIG OIL" is out to get you.