Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 07-14-2008, 09:11 AM
 
Location: In a house
5,232 posts, read 8,415,423 times
Reputation: 2583

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlashTheCash View Post
What does it take to qualify one to ascertain the will of the lawmakers?
An ability to read & comprehend English.
In honesty its my belief that people such as yourself, who feel a need to over complicate things are to blame for the litigious nature of our society at this point in time. Rendering every nuance into a complex puzzle does not do much to clarify an issue or come to a conclusion. I tend to try & simplify things. Seeing as they just got thru fighting off an oppresive Govt its obvious that their intent was to limit the Govts power & assure the power of the citizenry was not watered down & rendered impotent.

You said,
Quote:
The rules were what Blackstone said they were, in his famous Commentaries.
Then you said,
Quote:
I would follow the common law rules of construction that prevailed at the time the Constitution was made.
Both statements give the impression that you know & understand those rules that the SC cant figure out. Given your obviously heightened comprehension skills what do you feel the intent of the law makers was?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 07-14-2008, 09:12 AM
 
415 posts, read 610,957 times
Reputation: 33
Default He's Obviously Cherry Picking

Justice Scalia’s Methodology Of Constitutional Interpretation Is Just An Excuse To Cherry Pick Evidence That Squares With His Personal Views.

In the excerpt below, from the U. S. Supreme Court's opinion in the case of Heller v. D. C, authored my favorite activist on the Court, Justice Scalia attempts to ascertain the meaning of the term "keep arms." However, the term "keep arms" doesn't actually appear in the Second Amendment and he's already ascertained the meaning of the word "arms."
The phrase “keep arms” was not prevalent in the written
documents of the founding period that we have found,
but there are a few examples, all of which favor viewing
the right to “keep Arms” as an individual right unconnected
with militia service. William Blackstone, for example,
wrote that Catholics convicted of not attending
service in the Church of England suffered certain penalties,
one of which was that they were not permitted to
“keep arms in their houses.” 4 Commentaries on the Laws
of England 55 (1769) (hereinafter Blackstone); see also 1
W. & M., c. 15, §4, in 3 Eng. Stat. at Large 422 (1689)
(“[N]o Papist . . . shall or may have or keep in his House
. . . any Arms . . . ”); 1 Hawkins, Treatise on the Pleas of
the Crown 26 (1771) (similar). Petitioners point to militia
laws of the founding period that required militia members
to “keep” arms in connection with militia service, and they
conclude from this that the phrase “keep Arms” has a
militia-related connotation. See Brief for Petitioners 16–
17 (citing laws of Delaware, New Jersey, and Virginia).
This is rather like saying that, since there are many statutes
that authorize aggrieved employees to “file complaints”
with federal agencies, the phrase “file complaints”
has an employment-related connotation. “Keep arms” was
simply a common way of referring to possessing arms, for
militiamen and everyone else.7
When Scalia was ascertaining the meaning of the word "arms", he went to "Samuel Johnson’s dictionary." However, this time he goes to "Commentaries on the Laws of England." He's obviously cherry picking.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-14-2008, 09:26 AM
 
Location: In a house
5,232 posts, read 8,415,423 times
Reputation: 2583
Quote:
He's obviously cherry picking.
Granted, but he has no choice faced with justifying a simple concept to people who refuse to admit the reality of what the amendment means.

Arms, in this sense, always means weaponry & Bearing arms always means carrying that weaponry around with you. If we can agree on that then the meaning of the second amendment is obvious as is the intent of the lawmakers.

The only thing up in the air to a realistic & logical person is wether such restrictions apply to states & municipalities. IMO thats answered by the Fed getting involved in other cases of civil right denial. Coupled with the fact that virtually every state has a constitution that protects the RKBA it is very obvious that not just federal law makers, but state legislators as well wanted civilian RKBA protected.

The only ones confused by it are those who dont like it, they themselves are not confused either in the intent, but merely at the idea. They do however introduce & foster confusion at every opportunity in an attempt, a vain one I hope, to get things turned around in their favor.

But that aside, its very obvious, even to an unread person such as myself that the vast majority of lawmakers & ordinary people at the time the constitution was put together saw the RKBA as very important & not to be arbitrarily denied the peple.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-14-2008, 10:03 AM
 
415 posts, read 610,957 times
Reputation: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tin Knocker View Post
Arms...means weaponry
How did you ascertain that?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-14-2008, 12:04 PM
 
Location: In a house
5,232 posts, read 8,415,423 times
Reputation: 2583
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlashTheCash View Post
How did you ascertain that?
Understanding English.

Here let me help, Its either the upper extremities,

Quote:
Main Entry:1arm Pronunciation: \ˈärm\ Function:noun Etymology:Middle English, from Old English earm; akin to Latin armus shoulder, Sanskrit īrma armDate:before 12th century 1: a human upper limb; especially : the part between the shoulder and the wrist
Or its weaponry,

Quote:
Main Entry: 2arm Function:verb Etymology:Middle English armen, from Anglo-French armer, from Latin armare, from arma weapons, tools; akin to Latin ars skill, Greek harmos joint, arariskein to fitDate:12th century transitive verb 1 : to furnish or equip with weapons
Quote:
Main Entry: 3arm Function:noun Usage:often attributive Etymology:Middle English armes (plural) weapons, from Anglo-French, from Latin armaDate:
13th century 1 a: a means (as a weapon) of offense or defense; especially : firearm
In case you dont understand the term "Bear" as it pertains to guns,

Quote:
bear arms 1: to carry or possess arms2: to serve as a soldier
Hope that helps.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-14-2008, 12:06 PM
 
Location: Cary, NC
1,113 posts, read 1,815,046 times
Reputation: 141
http://www.demopolislive.com/gallery/images/1/medium/1_the_right_to_bear_arms.jpg (broken link)
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-14-2008, 12:08 PM
 
Location: In a house
5,232 posts, read 8,415,423 times
Reputation: 2583
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsburg View Post
http://www.demopolislive.com/gallery/images/1/medium/1_the_right_to_bear_arms.jpg (broken link)
Cute.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-14-2008, 12:13 PM
 
415 posts, read 610,957 times
Reputation: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tin Knocker View Post
Understanding English.

Here let me help, Its either the upper extremities,



Or its weaponry,





In case you dont understand the term "Bear" as it pertains to guns,



Hope that helps.
Were you following any particular methodology of intepretation?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-14-2008, 01:47 PM
 
Location: In a house
5,232 posts, read 8,415,423 times
Reputation: 2583
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlashTheCash View Post
Were you following any particular methodology of intepretation?
My methodology involves understanding the words, putting them together & deriving an obvious intent.

Why not answer my question.

Given that you profess to understand the rules of interpretation & the methodology one should use to understand simple statements,

How do you read the second amendment.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-14-2008, 01:50 PM
 
2,836 posts, read 3,496,025 times
Reputation: 1406
We've all been ****ed, and you're still arguing about foreplay. Wake up and smell the bull****!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:50 AM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top