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Old 06-30-2008, 06:11 PM
 
1,604 posts, read 3,419,304 times
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All of this election talk has had me thinking about past elections where evangelical Christians made a significant jump to the pro-Holy, pro-life, anti-gay republicans, hoping that we would return to the "morally upright" ways of the 1950s. But despite voting for these "moral figures," the last eight years have been the biggest spiral to immorality that I have ever seen.

-Children are becoming more physically aggressive and uncontrollable
-Teens are becoming more sexually promiscuous (and not with adults much older than them)
-Those who promote immorality (esp. rappers, has-been stars, heiress celebrities) are worshiped to the extreme
-Gay marriage and relations has flourished in the media and is legal in some states
-Abortion has become seen no different than getting one's tonsils removed.
-The nuclear family is falling apart at a catastrophic rate w/ adultery and divorce
-Money and possessions is now the determinant of one's importance, character, and self-worth
-Hedonism is now seen as an excusable reason for one's negative actions

So religious republicans, all I have to ask you is this: What has the religious right really done to make this country more moral now than it was eight years ago?




P.S.: In addition, in the midst of this presidential election, where are all of you in general this year? I'm hearing from the working class, elite liberals, warhawk patriots, and bigots-in-disguise about their opinions, but where are all of you in this?
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Old 06-30-2008, 06:34 PM
 
8,180 posts, read 11,039,458 times
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You want the religous right in the democratic party? Fine, you can have them.
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Old 06-30-2008, 06:36 PM
 
Location: St. Joseph Area
6,237 posts, read 8,251,139 times
Reputation: 3093
Quote:
-Children are becoming more physically aggressive and uncontrollable
-Teens are becoming more sexually promiscuous (and not with adults much older than them)
-Those who promote immorality (esp. rappers, has-been stars, heiress celebrities) are worshiped to the extreme
-Gay marriage and relations has flourished in the media and is legal in some states
-Abortion has become seen no different than getting one's tonsils removed.
-The nuclear family is falling apart at a catastrophic rate w/ adultery and divorce
-Money and possessions is now the determinant of one's importance, character, and self-worth
-Hedonism is now seen as an excusable reason for one's negative actions

So religious republicans, all I have to ask you is this: What has the religious right really done to make this country more moral now than it was eight years ago?
Hi Fairfaxian! Great question!

First I should say that while I'm a christian, I'm not a part of the "religious right". I just happen to be politically conservative.

I think your perceptions are right on, except abortion. I don't think it's viewed that positively. That said, I've thought about this myself, and this is my conclusion: That while a lot of christians were out being activists, they forgot their communities, families and schools. Also, they forgot to remind their fellow christians of their obligation to be a light for Christ in their communities. Instead they were told "If you want to help American society, vote for _______; Never mind the belief that the best way to change someone's heart is to follow Jesus as Lord

While I am opposed to abortion, no-fault divorce etc...I don't believe these problems will ultimately be solved by government decrees, but by changing the hearts of the American public; for unwed mothers to love their unborn kids, for spouses to love each other, and for kids to be raised with respect for their parents and for those in authority. A lot of christians already do this, but it should be done more than it is.

Without getting into a big theological discussion, that's my perception. I hope that helps.
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Old 06-30-2008, 06:40 PM
 
3,255 posts, read 4,499,097 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mackinac81 View Post
Hi Fairfaxian! Great question!

First I should say that while I'm a christian, I'm not a part of the "religious right". I just happen to be politically conservative.

I think your perceptions are right on, except abortion. I don't think it's viewed that positively. That said, I've thought about this myself, and have come to the conclusion that a lot of christians have forgotten that people can only be truly "moral" by choosing to follow jesus as Lord. Only then can the heart be really changed. Instead many of us have become a bunch of activists, looking to the government to solve our social problems. Meanwhile, we forget our communities, schools, and in some cases our families.

While I am opposed to abortion, no-fault divorce etc...I don't believe these problems will ultimately be solved by government decrees, but by changing the hearts of the American public; for unwed mothers to love their unborn kids, for spouses to love each other, and for kids to be raised with respect for their parents and for those in authority.
Without getting into a big theological discussion, that's my perception. I hope that helps.
The rise of the prosperity church vs the humble church is a problem in this regard I think. Somehow asking God for things instead of doing things to be in God's grace seems to just continue on the idea that the world owes you a living. With that attitude, we become focused on our blessings rather than creating heaven on Earth for our fellows. I am left leaning Catholic, so I might not be qualified to put my two sense in.
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Old 06-30-2008, 06:44 PM
 
Location: St. Joseph Area
6,237 posts, read 8,251,139 times
Reputation: 3093
Quote:
The rise of the prosperity church vs the humble church is a problem in this regard I think. Somehow asking God for things instead of doing things to be in God's grace seems to just continue on the idea that the world owes you a living. With that attitude, we become focused on our blessings rather than creating heaven on Earth for our fellows. I am left leaning Catholic, so I might not be qualified to put my two sense in.
I think you're on to something here. Christians are tempted by the glittering American life as much as anyone.
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Old 06-30-2008, 06:45 PM
 
Location: Charlotte
12,646 posts, read 13,619,902 times
Reputation: 1679
Quote:
Originally Posted by mackinac81 View Post
Hi Fairfaxian! Great question!

First I should say that while I'm a christian, I'm not a part of the "religious right". I just happen to be politically conservative.

I think your perceptions are right on, except abortion. I don't think it's viewed that positively. That said, I've thought about this myself, and this is my conclusion: That while a lot of christians were out being activists, they forgot their communities, families and schools. Also, they forgot to remind their fellow christians of their obligation to be a light for Christ in their communities. Instead they were told "If you want to help American society, vote for _______; Never mind the belief that the best way to change someone's heart is to follow Jesus as Lord

While I am opposed to abortion, no-fault divorce etc...I don't believe these problems will ultimately be solved by government decrees, but by changing the hearts of the American public; for unwed mothers to love their unborn kids, for spouses to love each other, and for kids to be raised with respect for their parents and for those in authority. A lot of christians already do this, but it should be done more than it is.

Without getting into a big theological discussion, that's my perception. I hope that helps.
This is a great post!
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Old 06-30-2008, 06:47 PM
 
Location: Charlotte
12,646 posts, read 13,619,902 times
Reputation: 1679
Quote:
Originally Posted by janeannwho View Post
The rise of the prosperity church vs the humble church is a problem in this regard I think. Somehow asking God for things instead of doing things to be in God's grace seems to just continue on the idea that the world owes you a living. With that attitude, we become focused on our blessings rather than creating heaven on Earth for our fellows. I am left leaning Catholic, so I might not be qualified to put my two sense in.
It appears many of us have forgotten it is better to give than receive.
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Old 06-30-2008, 07:26 PM
 
Location: Charlotte, NC (in my mind)
7,946 posts, read 14,611,059 times
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After the conservative '80s, things started to go left in the '90s. I thought the election of George W. Bush would put this country back on moral track. I was wrong. This country is far worse off morally than we were in 2000. This decade has seen the second greatest 'falling away' from God and moral values in American history, with the 1960s being the greatest. This country today is the spiritual equivalent of Sodom and Gomorrha. If it feels good, its righteous and holy and to question that makes you an ignorant intolerant bigot. I am afraid this country is at the mercy of God now.

At the same time, Bush's policies have devastated this country in ways that will haunt us for decades to come. We now have the worst economy in over 70 years. He ran as the 'Christian' President but really only used the evangelical vote to get elected. He has done more for Big Oil than he has done for evangelicals. He has been the most dissappointing President in my lifetime. He had the opportunity to become great after 9/11 but he squandered that opportunity.
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Old 06-30-2008, 08:36 PM
LML
 
Location: Wisconsin
7,109 posts, read 7,922,996 times
Reputation: 5154
I am an Evangelical Christian. I do not believe in the "prosperity gospel" because I serve a Savior that never had place to rest His head and who taught that "whatsoever you do to the least of these you do to me." He lived His life on earth in poverty. Am I to believe that His Father did not love Him? All of his disciples were martyred. Am I to believe that He did not love them? He told us that we were to serve..not to be served and that he who would be first must be last. So everything represented by this new prosperity gospel goes against everything the One I worship taught. I think that the neo cons have cold bloodedly used people's faith and belief in the right to life to gain power and wealth. I believe they sit in their mansions and laugh themselves silly about how everyday working people will vote against their own best interests if the politicians the neo cons support just use the right buzz words. The neo cons have had almost 8 years of uninterrupted power and have done nothing to end abortion. What they have done is do away with every program that could help poor people, single mothers, working people support the children they have. And what they try to make people believe is that God is a republican. I think that when they face God they are going to have to realize that they are facing the One who drove the money changers out of the temple and called the neo cons of His day hypocrites.
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Old 06-30-2008, 09:19 PM
 
20,315 posts, read 37,820,570 times
Reputation: 18105
Quote:
Originally Posted by janeannwho View Post
The rise of the prosperity church vs the humble church is a problem in this regard I think. Somehow asking God for things instead of doing things to be in God's grace seems to just continue on the idea that the world owes you a living. With that attitude, we become focused on our blessings rather than creating heaven on Earth for our fellows. I am left leaning Catholic, so I might not be qualified to put my two sense in.
One of the best comments I've seen in a long time. If these are your own personal thoughts then you are one of the rarest of the rare - a THINKER of original thoughts! I've seen some of those TV preachers talking about how God wants you to be rich, how God wants you to have prosperity. Talk about an old time medicine show with a magic elixir for whatever ails ye, that's the game we see now. Many of these new "mega-churches" are more business than church. I wish people of faith would keep their donations in their local church, where it gets spent helping their local communities. I live near Dobson's FOTF campus, and let me tell you, that guy has built a huge and glorious brick temple to himself, I guess he sees himself as a God.

I agree with all the posters who talk about how neo-CONs took the religious right to the cleaners. Behind Dobson's back the Bush white house referred to him and others as "useful idiots" for dumping cash and votes into the GOP column. David Kuo, one of Bush's people in the Office of Faith Based Initiatives blew the whistle on Bush, Rove, et al, in his book "Tempting Faith." It's a MUST read for the religious right to see just how badly they've been used and abused.

The only TV preacher ever worth listening too, IMO, is Billy Graham, the real deal. I heard on the news that Obama has visited him.
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