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Old 07-17-2008, 03:37 AM
 
418 posts, read 563,129 times
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This thread is very interesting... like I said, living in US is all but cheap these days.

People boast low taxes, but in reality, this is far from truth. Real estate taxes are quite high, and eat a lot of income(many countries do not have such taxes at all, or are extremely small compared to US). Then there is health insurance... less and less people have it provided by employer, in most cases even then they pay.

Even with everything paid, there is no guarantee that you're not going to have to foot very heavy bills. Try losing a job... you'll choose between rent, HI, and unfortunately, for many even better food.

Average salaries, or should we better say median, in US are nothing special. 30 000$, and 40 000$. Many countries exceed easily, Switzerland by more than 100%.

Like I said, social system and customs like vacations etc. should be taken into consideration. What Americans call benefits- long&short term paid sick leave, long short term paid disability, long paid vacations, maternal leave(up to 3 years in some countries) work hours which let you have a life instead of misery etc. are all standard in most western countries.

For instance, I have 6 weeks right now, significantly lower working hours than in US(much less stress), too. At a much higher salary. My unemployment insurance runs at 70% of salary, up to 2 years.

It turns out that many people in countries with load of vacations, less work time,
and much better quality of life enjoy higher incomes, too.

This is not at all strange, as in real terms, in 1982 $, US salaries are today lower than in 70s.

I can't directly compare this to Australia, but average weekly wages there also exceed US.

Recently, OECD did a comparison of average family in OECD countries, and in real terms, US families, considering their real income ended somewhere on the bottom.

A country isn't rich just because it has the most billionares...

There is also a measure called median accumulated wealth, I don't have the data right now, but Western Europeans also have higher median accumulated wealth. I would say Australians, too. Not sure about New Zealand...
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Old 07-17-2008, 04:42 AM
 
Location: Jonquil City (aka Smyrna) Georgia- by Atlanta
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Taxes are higher in Canada
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Old 07-17-2008, 06:46 AM
 
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Probably because Canada has to pay its people to stay in the frigid north... I rather have less and live in a more pleasant climate and environment...
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Old 07-31-2008, 06:29 AM
 
418 posts, read 563,129 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevK View Post
Taxes are higher in Canada
Even so, it doesn't really matter... wealth is all after tax. Also, it takes into account somewhat higher prices in Canada.

Income taxes are about the same... corporate tax is less in Canada,
I think property tax is also less... sales tax might be somewhat more, but you don't have extreme expenses of HI. In fact, HI in US acts as invisible, but very high tax. I'm surprised nobody considers that.

Canadian govt has worked hard to slash debt, and up the living standards of citizens.
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Old 07-31-2008, 07:01 AM
 
418 posts, read 563,129 times
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Originally Posted by evilnewbie View Post
Probably because Canada has to pay its people to stay in the frigid north... I rather have less and live in a more pleasant climate and environment...
LOL It's not all that bad in Canada... not everything is frozen, but yes, ala California climate, there isn't such thing...

That's why you have Australia... both nice places to live, but I like climate in Australia much more.

Average weekly salaries, FT are now around 1170AUD, and growing some 3-4% each year, much faster than in US.

Both Australia and Canada get much more immigrants than US, considering the size of population.

One other thing to note here is that Americans like to carry extremely large amounts of debt... debt is often mistaken for ownership, while in fact, it has to be returned with interest.

One other thing is that quality of life in Canada and OZ is higher than in US, you work less, more vacations, basic social system... in that respect, Canada and OZ are more like Western Europe.

The attitude is more- work to LIVE, not LIVE to work-as in USA.

Last edited by fiksi; 07-31-2008 at 07:13 AM..
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Old 07-31-2008, 07:08 AM
 
Location: Raleigh, NC
9,059 posts, read 12,947,425 times
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This was entirely predictable for anyone with half a brain.

Borrowing to consume while gutting the manufacturing infrastructure is a quick road to failure. The illusion that your house was going to be your retirement booty or a ticket to EZ-street is taking its suckers by surprise.

As the world dumps US debt, this will continue to spiral and with the Fannie/Freddie bailout piled on, we are currently on a path to hyperinflation. MANY new regulations and curtailments of economic liberties to come. Democrats are even debating a bill to implement an "economic Berlin Wall", or taxing people to leave the country.

Both McCain and Obama promise more socialism and playing Santa Claus. The former denies he is one while the latter spins like a top when confronted on the matter.

Consumer prices will continue to escalate regardless of how much we cut back, as the world will be consuming and enjoying what is no longer ours.

Eventually, we will see the light and return to small government, property rights, civil liberties, and thus prosperity. But, not after a brutal and prolonged epoch of suffering.
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Old 07-31-2008, 07:48 AM
 
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After looking around a bit at several different sources I have found it is nit just Canadians who are doing better than we are but several other countries. In 25 years we have gone from first to, as I average out all the sources, eighth in median wealth. I found some charts had us as low as 14th. In any event according to all of the charts (again average) this year Ireland has passed us. Many people are running around trying to put the blame on anything from the Chinese unfair trade practices, the EU freezing us out (Whatever that means???) to illegal aliens. The truth is it is are own fault and we have to pull together to salvage what we can for the immediate and try to rebuild for the future but with the attitude I see among too many Americans under 50 it seems like an almost impossible task.
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Old 07-31-2008, 08:11 AM
 
194 posts, read 324,886 times
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Canada(particularly the larger cities) has benefited greatly from the influx of Hong Kong Chinese who have more money than they know what to do with. They just pay cash for homes and don't care what is costs. They also value education beyond anything else and their children reap the benefits.
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Old 07-31-2008, 08:40 AM
 
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The key wrod is median.We have tons of people who left california doing the same thnig here and we juts hope tehy don't bring the problems here created there.
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Old 07-31-2008, 10:10 AM
 
418 posts, read 563,129 times
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Not to confuse things... the key here is income, and accumulated wealth, not GDP per capita.

Salaries you get, you can spend... other than that, it's all guesswork.

If we look strictly at income, and median wealth one can accumulate, US is now pretty much behind entire Western Europe, OZ, Canada, and perhaps even New Zealand.

Median salary in US is around 30 000$ before tax... that's only 20 000Euro. When you pay for HI, education etc. you are lucky if you are left with anything at all.

US has, sadly, become a country with loads of poor, few extremely wealthy, and a middle class not that well off.

Isn't something else wrong in US society altogether? When you imprison almost 10% of your population, smth is seriously wrong... Us imprisons, per capita, even more than 500% as much prisoners as others in West, yet crime is very rife and murders are common...

Ultimately, taxes WILL have to go UP to imprison another country of people within US.

And yes, when you consume more than you make, it can only turn out badly.
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