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Those that suggest that because of what happened 100's of years ago - a 100 years ago, they cannot succeed in life - are simply trying to find an excuse for their lack of achievement.
Affirmative Action programs, while perhaps well intentioned originally, are not needed today IMO.
Let people succeed on their own merit - not because of some law gives them an edge.
AA is a quota system -
It is not needed.
Quota systems seldom if ever deliver anything but poor results. They do deliver poor moral among those who don't benefit, Which also leads to you guessed it racist, sexist feelings.
So whats the difference between the goodboys club and AA? Both single out and only hire certain individuals regardless of who is most qualified.
Supporters say the measure levels the playing field, giving everyone an equal chance at every job.
Does this mean that all children will receive equal educations? Because I'm all for that.
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Originally Posted by Rakin
So what is the purpose of them existing today and excluding someone who is not of color ?
Such as? There are plenty of pro-minority groups with white members and officers. Nobody is stopping whites from joining the NAACP if they want to.
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Originally Posted by Greatday
Those that suggest that because of what happened 100's of years ago - a 100 years ago, they cannot succeed in life - are simply trying to find an excuse for their lack of achievement.
Segregation and Jim Crow ended 100 years ago? Really? Because the Dallas Independent School District wasn't considered fully integrated until 2003 (http://library.law.smu.edu/disd/background.shtm - broken link). Today, white students make up 5% of DISD, despite being 53% of the city's population. But I guess things like that are normal to people like you.
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Originally Posted by easternerDC
When a culture is created in this country (by whites) that prevents a minority group from being educated (such as under slavery), and from being considered a citizen with voting rights, and the ability to hold an office, it takes time for a new generation to grow. It has not been than long since blacks were unable to vote. It has not been that long since laws have been passed that don't allow discrimination. It takes time for society to evolve and for the effects of this discrimination to diminish.
Sure is funny how nobody wants to pay my grandparents reparations for all those years they paid taxes on schools their children couldn't attended and roads they couldn't drive down, or even a portion of the tens of thousands of dollars they paid for private schools for well over two decades, just to keep their children from being bussed. I mean, if we want to make sure that money goes directly to victims...oh, wait. That's not what people here actually want, it is? They want to just keep bitching and moaning about slavery.
And since the main beneficiaries of affirmative action are white women, can we PLEASE get off black people's backs about how AA is ruining the lives of the poor white man?
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But there are many reasons why nearly all whites oppose reparations. Mazzocco said some whites may believe slavery happened so long ago that slave descendants today don't deserve to be compensated. The researchers examined the “too long ago” rationale in another study.
The researchers asked participants to imagine that their great, great grandfather, a wealthy shipping magnate, had been kidnapped about 150 years ago. The kidnappers demanded and received a large ransom that bankrupted the shipping magnate. That ransom was used to start a successful company that still survives today and is worth $100 million. Participants were asked whether they would be willing to be a part of a large suit against the present-day company that could net them each about $5,000.
In this scenario, 61 percent agreed to have their names listed on the lawsuit. The researchers noted that this is about the percentage of blacks today who support reparations for slave descendants.
“When white Americans find it within themselves to say ‘I must be compensated for a past injustice done to me' but the same logic evaporates when the injustice concerns black Americans, they are staring straight at bias,” Banaji said.
What about my grandparents that were more or less held captive by coal companies, were paid in company script, and were, legally, not allowed to leave the coal camps until they paid off all of their debts to the company (which was never possible to do, realistically.) Or my great, great, great grandparents that were fooled into coming to the US to work in indentured servitude for 20 years in order to "pay off" the trip across the Atlantic?
I understand that black people have had a rough history, and, outside of the Native Americans, probably the worst of every group that has had a rough history. But please do understand that they aren't alone. At least black people today have the liberals and the awesome power of white guilt behind them. The liberals are so united and zealous about helping black people that it's almost a character flaw. Though, I do agree, such things are warranted based on the lack of opportunities blacks have had historically.
Today uttering a racial slur towards a black man is just not socially acceptable. In fact, doing so will make people lose jobs, careers, and who knows what else. At least you have that. I'm Scots-Irish Appalachian. Nobody gives a flying **** about us. We're just stupid, backwoods hilljack white rednecks. And if you utter something equally as vicious and hurtful towards us based upon any one of the typical stereotypes, people laugh a hearty chuckle. It's funny because we deserve it...or it's "true"....or whatever. People hear my accent outside of Appalachia and they assume I'm an idiot. Especially the liberal hipster type. God they annoy me. "Look at me, I'm so damned progressive and lacking of any prejudice....haha, you're from WV....do you have indoor plumbing...I bet you're mom's your aunt!"
And so on and so forth. I bet blacks probably have to deal with similar things. This "white boy" understands, at least.
Conservatives want to subjugate us for logical economic reasons because they are practicaly economic fascists. Liberals just demonize us because they are *******s who think they are better than everyone else. I mean, hell, we're just screwed.
But do know.....there isn't just one type of white person. In fact, poor white people and poor black people face more of the same challenges and have more in common than they do with rich people of any race. Once both groups realize that and forge forward together, they will have formed one of the most powerful groups in the country. Divided like they are now trying to make power grabs for an individual piece of the pie is where both groups are destined to fail.
So the idea that the most qualified also means the most deserving is wrong?
Its not about race or sex to me. Its all about who is most qualified.
If I own a small business say 5 employees. I need to hire a 6th. Who should I hire? How should I decide?
I will decide based on experience, past job history, and over all impression made during the interview.
Same business. I am going to promote someone. I will promote based on job performance, demonstrated skills and reliability.
Note sex, race, and genetic relationships are not a factor.
The gov. Everyone pays taxes so Gov jobs should be equal opprotunity. If no where else in our country civil service should always be about who performed best on the test. NOT Quota's and not a boys club mentality.
Tax dollars pay those salaries. All americans deserve the same shot and an absolute level playing field.
I do not include veterans preferance in this argument. Vets have earned the 5 points they get. Its no gift.
tl;dr. Sorry, but I've heard my fair share about how hard it is to be white in America.
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This "white boy" understands, at least.
You're so far away from understanding that the light from Planet Understanding isn't going to reach you in your lifetime. My father is from the Appalachians - do you think he would do anything with your post except for point and laugh, encouraging others to do the same?
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Originally Posted by Greatday
The ONLY way all children can receive an "equal" education is to be taught in the same school by the same teacher.
Right. So why aren't more people voting on this issue, rather than the token jobs that women and minorities are thrown from time to time?
Last edited by PennyGWoods; 07-12-2008 at 05:46 AM..
The ONLY way all children can receive an "equal" education is to be taught in the same school by the same teacher.
'Elst, it is not equal anyway
Well terms like "justice and equality" mean nothing to you since equality is virtually impossible based on your narrow definition (i.e. if it's not the same judge hearing the case, don't expect an equal chance for justice). Your snide comment also supports the conclusion that AA is very much needed. In any case for those of us that believe equal opportunity for quality education is important to leveling the playing field, this would mean making the same nice, new texbooks available to all students in all schools, equal ratio of teacher to students in the classroom, applying same rigor for hiring teachers and school administrators so quality of staff personnel is similar (this of course would mean offering comparable pay), same extra-curricular programs are available, access to computers, libraries, etc. The list goes on but I think you get my point.
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