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Old 01-24-2007, 07:41 PM
 
Location: Northeast
1,298 posts, read 2,365,454 times
Reputation: 618

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amavel View Post
Perhaps your wife should have contacted the ACLU which fights for civil rights above all else.

Anyways, it doesn't change the fact that culture and race are not dependent nor genetically linked. NAACP is not a cultural organization-- they fight for civil rights (whether or not it's solely for African-Americans is not relevent).

Well that's not what you said in your other post. You said they fight for "underrepresented groups".

They don't.

They fight for black people. Thats all, nobody else. They are an organization based on race, period.

-TT

 
Old 01-24-2007, 07:42 PM
 
597 posts, read 1,785,841 times
Reputation: 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amavel View Post
And I'm sure the general public doesn't know that race is a figment of society, NOT GENETICS.... The same general public, when constructing groups according to what they think may be the culture of a particular race, are unaware of the illogical basis of such groups.
Race is very much GENETIC, not a figment of society. Culture is a figment of society and their are sub-cultures within the larger cultures in all societies. Those terms are often confused by well-meaning people. You can take someone's DNA and be able to say what their racial origins are down to a very, very minute detail (you could pin-point where this person's lineage is from). Also, if race was a figment of our imaginations why can forensic anthropologists look at a skull and a set of bones and know what general racial category this person was from (african, caucasian, asian, etc) with good accuracy? In a country where we believe that everyone is equal, often times people feel that if we admit there are racial differences, then somehow this is admitting we are unequal and that just shouldn't be the case.
 
Old 01-24-2007, 08:03 PM
 
Location: Orange County
354 posts, read 761,717 times
Reputation: 169
I guess I'll restate my point again-- race is a figment of society. Race and culture are not dependent on each other. I've quoted PBS (http://www.pbs.org/race/001_WhatIsRace/001_00-home.htm) to further establish this fact.

"Race has no genetic basis. Not one characteristic, trait, or gene distinguishes all members of one so-called race from all members of another so-called race."

"Most variation is within, not between 'races'. Of the small maount of total human genetic variation, 85% exists within any local population, be they Italians, Kurds, Koreans, or Cherokees. Two random Koreans are likely to be as genetically different as a Korean and an Italian."

"Human subspecies don't exist. Unlike many animals, moden humans have not been around long enough, nor have populations been isolated enough, to evolve into seperate subspecies or races. Despite surface differences, we are among the most similar of all species."

"Skin color is only skin deep. Most traits are inherited independently of one another. The genes for skin color have nothing to do with genes for hair texture, eye shape, blood type, musical talent, or athletic ability."

"Race justified social inequalities as natural. As the race concept evolved, it justified extermination of Native Americans, exclusion of Asian immigrants, and taking of Mexican lands. Racial practices were institutionalized within government, laws, and society."

"Race is not biological, but racism is still real. Race is still a powerful social idea that gives people different access to opportunities and resources. Our government and society have created advantages to being white. This affects everyone, whether we are aware of it or not."

"Colorblindness will not end racism. Pretending race doesn't exist is not the same as creating equality. Race is more than stereotypes and individual prejudice. To combat racism, we need to identify and remedy social policies that advantage some groups at the expense of others."
 
Old 01-24-2007, 08:14 PM
 
Location: Northeast
1,298 posts, read 2,365,454 times
Reputation: 618
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amavel View Post
I guess I'll restate my point again--.........

"Race is not biological, but racism is still real. Race is still a powerful social idea that gives people different access to opportunities and resources. Our government and society have created advantages to being white. This affects everyone, whether we are aware of it or not."
ROTFLMAO

The entire post, but this piece in particular has to be one of the most ignorant pieces of rhetoric I have seen lately.

"Advantages to being white"

Which ones?

Affirmative action?
Minority only scholarships?
Political correctness to the point where you can only nod and smile?
Being forced to pay sometimes DOUBLE the real estate price to live in an area with other whites in it?
NOT paying the price, and moving to a minority area where you and your family would be a target for reverse racism, DAILY?
Oh wait, you mean the part where we have all these social programs for low income WHITES? lol
How about watching people of color get promoted with less accomplishments so a company can "balance" their org chart?

30% off for white people coupons at Amazon.com?

I'm lost now. I didn't get my "club card" in the mail so I think I'm missing out.

ENLIGHTEN me. Don't just make ambiguous statements like that, ENLIGHTEN me, PLEASE. I feel like I'm missing the gravy train.

-TT
 
Old 01-24-2007, 08:18 PM
 
5,019 posts, read 12,466,511 times
Reputation: 6952
Quote:
Race is very much GENETIC, not a figment of society. Culture is a figment of society and their are sub-cultures within the larger cultures in all societies.
Errrrr, actually, most scientists in the field of geonome research would argue the opposite. The complaint, as I understand it, is that "race" is too imprecise, from a purely biological, scientific standpoint.

However, "race" still has meaning in cultural, anthropological and social contexts and certainly deserves continued study.

I tend to get most of my info from the home page of the National Human Genome Research Institute ( NHGRI ) as I am fascinated by this branch of biology.

Too deep of a subject to discuss here, IMO, but fascinating stuff for those who care to dig deeper.
 
Old 01-24-2007, 08:23 PM
 
Location: Orange County
354 posts, read 761,717 times
Reputation: 169
Yapcity, whether or not you agree with the former practices of the American government or its citizens does not change that fact that, yes, in the past being white had its advantages. The debate entails whether or not it exists today. Furthermore, I'd like to know which specific points were ignorant (besides your opinion of the historical matter you referenced)?

If you'd like to provide your own data or research, by all means do so. Otherwise, don't result to hasty generalizations or take certain phrases out of context.
 
Old 01-24-2007, 08:25 PM
 
5,019 posts, read 12,466,511 times
Reputation: 6952
Quote:
"Advantages to being white"
White males do get better pricing on new automobiles. I always grab the nearest handy one before heading to the dealership.

"Hey baybeee wanna ride in my car?"

Seriously? I think many of those "advantages" are reserved for white males of the upper-middle and upper-upper (the have-mores?) classes. I would NOT want to be a lower-middle/working class, high-school-educated- blue-collar male in today's society. {{{shudder}}}
 
Old 01-24-2007, 08:35 PM
 
Location: Northeast
1,298 posts, read 2,365,454 times
Reputation: 618
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amavel View Post
Yapcity, whether or not you agree with the former practices of the American government or its citizens does not change that fact that, yes, in the past being white had its advantages. The debate entails whether or not it exists today. Furthermore, I'd hardly call my post ignorant.

If you'd like to provide your own data or research, by all means do so. Otherwise, don't result to hasty generalizations or take certain phrases out of context.

Uhhm, lol.

You said that there were advantages created for being white. Did you not?

I've been alive since 1972, and I have yet to experience them. Ok, ONCE some jerk said something about me having an Irish last name. The guy was from Ireland, so it gave me the feeling I was being considered because of my heritage. I turned down the position. Other than that ONE time, with an obvious immigrant, NEVER have I had something happen because of my heritage, and it certainly has never happened because of my skin color.

Aren't you the one that gets annoyed when people think you can speak spanish? LMAO.

You just told me my whole life was handed to me because of my skin color. I guess I should just shrug that off? lmao. Si habla espanol?

So many minorities today are just something else. You're holding all the cards, but you still can't win the pot because you keep folding every hand waiting for a royal flush. Here I am with a busted straight and a short stack and I blame nobody for my issues. I just play the hand I was dealt.

5 to you.

-TT
 
Old 01-24-2007, 09:48 PM
 
597 posts, read 1,785,841 times
Reputation: 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by plaidmom View Post
Errrrr, actually, most scientists in the field of geonome research would argue the opposite. The complaint, as I understand it, is that "race" is too imprecise, from a purely biological, scientific standpoint.

However, "race" still has meaning in cultural, anthropological and social contexts and certainly deserves continued study.

I tend to get most of my info from the home page of the National Human Genome Research Institute ( NHGRI ) as I am fascinated by this branch of biology.

Too deep of a subject to discuss here, IMO, but fascinating stuff for those who care to dig deeper.
Yes, much too deep for here . But, I'm simply stating that in 'generic terms' they can pinpoint your genetic signature of your ancestors to specific regions (Africa, Asia, etc.). This is true that people can carry all sorts of these, but there are particular patterns amongst racial subgroups. For example, an article by the BBC:

Yorkshire Clan Linked To Africa
A Leicester University study found that seven men with a rare Yorkshire surname carry a genetic signature previously found only in people of African origin.
...
By chance, the researchers discovered a white man with a rare Yorkshire surname carrying a Y chromosome haplogroup that had previously been found only in West African men. And even there, it is relatively uncommon.
....
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/6293333.stm

This particular article was addressing the issue of genetic differences and how even one race can carry markers that are normally found only in one. But, the key to this the phrase "found only in people of African origin." What does this say? This says to me, that in general, there are ways to see genetically, where a persons ancestors came from and in turn be able to say with good probability that this person is asian or white or whatever. That is basically the point I'm trying to make here. I still haven't had someone give me evidence as to how anthropologists can distinguish an African skull versus an Asian skull if there is no such thing as a biologic/genetic differences in race. Please enlighten me.
 
Old 01-24-2007, 09:53 PM
 
597 posts, read 1,785,841 times
Reputation: 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by plaidmom View Post
White males do get better pricing on new automobiles. I always grab the nearest handy one before heading to the dealership.

"Hey baybeee wanna ride in my car?"

Seriously? I think many of those "advantages" are reserved for white males of the upper-middle and upper-upper (the have-mores?) classes. I would NOT want to be a lower-middle/working class, high-school-educated- blue-collar male in today's society. {{{shudder}}}
It's men in general that get better deal on cars. Not WHITE men. Salesman have an easier time conning women and often times they know they can't pull the curtain over a man as easily (this is perception, not reality!). It is a class issue more than anything that has us divided in this country. The rich and the very rich are the ones with the perks in this country and it doesn't matter what your color, if you got the cash, you get what you want.
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