What is wrong with Europe? (unemployment, generation, thoughts, American)

[ktalley]

Originally Posted by GregW

I would not move to Scandanavia because it is too cold and I do not have enough money. I think Tuscany is one of the garden spots of the universe. If much of Europe is goung wrong why is it so difficult to get into?

it's not that cold. In Sweden right now it's o\in the 70 and 80s. Sweden has not had a really cold winter ( below freezing for 4 months straight )for several years.

[Huckleberry3911948]

re your post about europe, for my part, i was born here and love it here, however lived overseas many years. our own behavior here leaves much to be desired. we are no longer in a position to criticize europe as to godliness and behavior.

[Moth]

Originally Posted by Angel and The Dolphin

Regarding Scandanavia vs. USA in alcohol consumption you are wrong. In fact the USA is FAR above any Scandavian country (except Denmark) in per capita consumption of alcohol. Many of the countries that do rival the US are in Eastern Europe or Southern Europe (with it's strong wine culture).
http://www.who.int/substance_abuse/p...4_overview.pdf

Also, I'm not sure where you get your data for "collapsing" socialist systems in Europe, but world economic data suggests quite the opposite, particularly with the Euro gaining incredible value over the dollar in recent years.

The discussion is about Alcoholism, not Consumption. Consuming a lot of alcohol does not automatically make one an alcoholic.

Any fool can take a walk around Copenhagen, Stockholm or Helsinki and see that there is one hell of a problem with alcoholism. You may as well argue that the sun is not hot. And the irony is that their respective governments tightly regulate booze via state monopolies and high prices and it does no good at all.

And I said nothing about any "collapsing" socialist systems. I trust you will make the appropriate corrections.

Don't get me wrong. I love Scandinavia. I have Swedish and Danish blood (probably why I like to tip a few- it ain't stress). But jeez, its so obvious.

[Angel and The Dolphin]

Originally Posted by Moth

The discussion is about Alcoholism, not Consumption. Consuming a lot of alcohol does not automatically make one an alcoholic.

Any fool can take a walk around Copenhagen, Stockholm or Helsinki and see that there is one hell of a problem with alcoholism. You may as well argue that the sun is not hot. And the irony is that their respective governments tightly regulate booze via state monopolies and high prices and it does no good at all.

And I said nothing about any "collapsing" socialist systems. I trust you will make the appropriate corrections.

Don't get me wrong. I love Scandinavia. I have Swedish and Danish blood (probably why I like to tip a few- it ain't stress). But jeez, its so obvious.

I answered two posts in my one. I edited to say "the poster who said..."

Higher alcohol consumption does correlate to alcoholism according to the WHO. Isn't the definition of alcohol abuse/alcoholism drinking to excess despite negative consequences?

[Moth]

I answered two posts in my one. I edited to say "the poster who said..."

Much obliged.

Higher alcohol consumption does correlate to alcoholism according to the WHO. Isn't the definition of alcohol abuse/alcoholism drinking to excess despite negative consequences?

Now you are repeating what I said. The definition of alcoholism is rather subjective, but yours is as good as any. So by that definition, then my statements stand as true. Unless you think streets full of adults puking on themselves in the middle of the day is not "negative consequences" in full view. For that is what one sees there, day in and day out. Imagine what is behind closed doors.

Scandinavia has a well-known problem with alcoholism. Many theories as to why- long, dark winters, melancholy personalities, etc. But the fact is they do. Its not a smear against Europe or their "Socialism" (are they really?). It was simply a retort to something someone else said.

[Angel and The Dolphin]

Originally Posted by Moth

Now you are repeating what I said. The definition of alcoholism is rather subjective, but yours is as good as any. So by that definition, then my statements stand as true. Unless you think streets full of adults puking on themselves in the middle of the day is not "negative consequences" in full view. For that is what one sees there, day in and day out. Imagine what is behind closed doors.

Scandinavia has a well-known problem with alcoholism. Many theories as to why- long, dark winters, melancholy personalities, etc. But the fact is they do. Its not a smear against Europe or their "Socialism" (are they really?). It was simply a retort to something someone else said.

I know it wasn't a smear

If alcohol consumption correlates to rates of alcoholism (which it does) then Scandavian countries have less alcholism than the USA since per capita our consumption is WAY higher (save Denmark). Of course, it could just be that a higher percentage of our population drinks in moderation and that Scandanavia has a large, visible minority of alcoholics. If that's the case, I blame the vikings

[Moth]

Originally Posted by Angel and The Dolphin

I know it wasn't a smear

If alcohol consumption correlates to rates of alcoholism (which it does) then Scandavian countries have less alcholism than the USA since per capita our consumption is WAY higher (save Denmark). Of course, it could just be that a higher percentage of our population drinks in moderation and that Scandanavia has a large, visible minority of alcoholics. If that's the case, I blame the vikings

I have never thought too much as to why. I only know that it is there and in abundance.

I personally do not believe higher consumption inevitably leads to higher levels of alcoholism. Germans drink a lot more than Americans yet are much more responsible with booze than we are.

There it is.

[Tom9]

Originally Posted by Moth

The discussion is about Alcoholism, not Consumption. Consuming a lot of alcohol does not automatically make one an alcoholic.

Any fool can take a walk around Copenhagen, Stockholm or Helsinki and see that there is one hell of a problem with alcoholism. You may as well argue that the sun is not hot. And the irony is that their respective governments tightly regulate booze via state monopolies and high prices and it does no good at all.

And I said nothing about any "collapsing" socialist systems. I trust you will make the appropriate corrections.

Don't get me wrong. I love Scandinavia. I have Swedish and Danish blood (probably why I like to tip a few- it ain't stress). But jeez, its so obvious.

If your city is anything like mine; Chicago, and I love this city but we have a tremendous problem with alcohol but you have to go out in the street to see it. Near where I live (Sheffield and Lawrence) and this is not a bad neighborhood with crime running rampant, you can see people every morning sitting in the four corners after they come out of the shelters with brown paper bags already starting to drink at 7AM.

The emergency rooms at Weiss and Thorek have a big problem with addicts of all types but mostly alcohol, coming into their ERs and seeking a bed and a free meal.

I think before we go criticizing anyone else we should clean up our own problem. I gave been to places in Europe that have their drunks but they are not as violent and pushy as ours for the most part.


An After thought: I think that this problem of substance abuse and public displays of drunkenness are simply exacerbated by affluency. When Spain, where I lived for many years, was still in the transition period and before, you rarely if ever saw people drunk on the street, the Spaniards like the Italians prided themselves in being able to hold their liquor and NOT be drunk in public and were openly critical of the scandalous behavior in the Northern countries brought on by acohol. It was a matter of personal honor. But the richer these two societies have become the more inebriates ones sees in the street.

[Moth]

If your city is anything like mine; Chicago, and I love this city but we have a tremendous problem with alcohol but you have to go out in the street to see it.

Not the same thing by a longshot. You have to go there and see for yourself.

[Tom9]

Originally Posted by Moth

Not the same thing by a longshot. You have to go there and see for yourself.

I HAVE been there and Swedish drunks are a hell of a lot less dangerous than Chicago drunks. So from that point of view you might just be right. It's not the same thing. YOU might want to be here to see what's going on in your own country.