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Old 07-08-2008, 01:02 AM
 
Location: One of the 50 states
95 posts, read 59,977 times
Reputation: 29

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Further proof that discrimination is baseless and justified only by fear and ignorance:

WASHINGTON - Congress should repeal the "don't ask, don't tell" law because the presence of gays in the military is unlikely to undermine the ability to fight and win, according to a new study released by a California-based research center.

The study was conducted by four retired military officers, including the three-star Air Force lieutenant general who in early 1993 was tasked with implementing President Clinton's policy that the military stop questioning recruits on their sexual orientation.

"Evidence shows that allowing gays and lesbians to serve openly is unlikely to pose any significant risk to morale, good order, discipline or cohesion," the officers states.

To support its contention, the panel points to the British and Israeli militaries, where it says gay people serve openly without hurting the effectiveness of combat operations.

Undermining unit cohesion was a determining factor when Congress passed the 1993 law, intended to keep the military from asking recruits their sexual orientation. In turn, service members can't say they are gay or bisexual, engage in homosexual activity or marry a member of the same sex.

Supporters of the ban contend there is still no empirical evidence that allowing gays to serve openly won't hurt combat effectiveness.

"The issue is trust and confidence" among members of a unit, said Lt. Col. Robert Maginnis, who retired in 1993 after working on the issue for the Army. When some people with a different sexual orientation are "in a close combat environment, it results in a lack of trust," he said.

The study was sponsored by the Michael D. Palm Center at the University of California at Santa Barbara, which said it picked the panel members to portray a bipartisan representation of the different service branches. According to its Web site, the Palm Center "is committed to keeping researchers, journalists and the general public informed of the latest developments in the 'don't ask, don't tell' policy debate." Palm himself was "a staunch supporter of civil rights in the gay community," the site says.

Two of the officers on the panel have endorsed Democratic candidates since leaving the military — Army Lt. Gen. Robert Gard, who supports Barack Obama, and Marine Corps Gen. Hugh Aitken, who backed Clinton in 1996.

Air Force Lt. Gen. Robert Minter Alexander, a Republican, was assigned in 1993 to a high-level panel established by the Defense Department to examine the issue of gays in the military. At one point, he signed an order that prohibited the military from asking a recruit's sexual orientation.

Alexander said at the time he was simply trying to carry out the president's orders and not take a position. But he now believes the law should be repealed because it assumes the existence of gays in the military is disruptive to units even though cultural attitudes are changing.

Further, the Defense Department and not Congress should be in charge of regulating sexual misconduct within the military, he said.

"Who else can better judge whether it's a threat to good order and discipline?" Alexander asked.

Navy Vice Adm. Jack Shanahan said he had no opinion on the issue when he joined the panel, having never confronted it in his 35-year military career. A self-described Republican who opposes the Bush administration's handling of the Iraq war, Shanahan said he was struck by the loss of personal integrity required by individuals to carry out "don't ask, don't tell."

"Everyone was living a big lie — the homosexuals were trying to hide their sexual orientation and the commanders were looking the other way because they didn't want to disrupt operations by trying to enforce the law," he said.

Study: Military gays don't undermine unit cohesion - Yahoo! News (broken link)
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Old 07-08-2008, 06:49 AM
 
Location: Charlotte, NC (in my mind)
7,943 posts, read 17,247,259 times
Reputation: 4686
Wow, another gay thread. Its starting to get ridiculous. This forum seriously needs to have a section for gay issues.
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Old 07-08-2008, 02:09 PM
 
2,779 posts, read 7,521,097 times
Reputation: 745
How about a section for homophobes so people who wish to discuss gay issues reasonably and seriously can do so?
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Old 07-08-2008, 02:10 PM
 
2,779 posts, read 7,521,097 times
Reputation: 745
Evolvement, I can't give you reputation or rate your post positively, otherwise I would. Thank you for posting this information.
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Old 07-08-2008, 02:28 PM
 
Location: Seattle Area
3,451 posts, read 7,053,302 times
Reputation: 3614
Quote:
Originally Posted by bchris02 View Post
Wow, another gay thread. Its starting to get ridiculous. This forum seriously needs to have a section for gay issues.
If you are not interested in the topic, why even bother to post...?
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Old 07-08-2008, 02:41 PM
 
Location: Earth
24,620 posts, read 28,275,143 times
Reputation: 11416
He can't help himself, it's a compulsion.

I work in a military community.
Most of my friends are quite young and could care less if someone is gay or not.
It's really a non-issue for them.
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Old 07-08-2008, 03:06 PM
 
Location: S.Florida
3,326 posts, read 5,339,464 times
Reputation: 343
Quote:
Originally Posted by chielgirl View Post
He can't help himself, it's a compulsion.

I work in a military community.
Most of my friends are quite young and could care less if someone is gay or not.
It's really a non-issue for them.
----------

I was in the Army 13 bravo artillery over seas . Its like anything else some care some dont but units need each other ESP combat units so being gay isnt an issue no one cares .

I hate to say this but it also has to do with what area your from those from some areas might care bit more than others but as a whole its the extreme right politicians who seem preoccupied with this 24/7 which is unusual considering those are types of people who NEVER serve nor do their kids.
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Old 07-08-2008, 03:45 PM
 
Location: Earth
24,620 posts, read 28,275,143 times
Reputation: 11416
A lot of my friends are special forces.
Not one care, do your job and it's not an issue.
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Old 07-08-2008, 04:12 PM
 
1,020 posts, read 1,377,126 times
Reputation: 580
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luiso View Post
----------

I was in the Army 13 bravo artillery over seas . Its like anything else some care some dont but units need each other ESP combat units so being gay isnt an issue no one cares .

I hate to say this but it also has to do with what area your from those from some areas might care bit more than others but as a whole its the extreme right politicians who seem preoccupied with this 24/7 which is unusual considering those are types of people who NEVER serve nor do their kids.

Mit Romney comes to mind as a prime example.
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Old 07-08-2008, 04:15 PM
 
Location: Earth
24,620 posts, read 28,275,143 times
Reputation: 11416
Most, if not all, of the neocons in the Bush maladministration, as well.
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