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Old 02-23-2007, 09:08 AM
 
Location: Haddington, E. Lothian, Scotland
752 posts, read 593,861 times
Reputation: 175

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Quote:
Originally Posted by carolinajack View Post
there is no constitutional right to own or drive a car, and many liberals want felons and people not registered to vote to vote.
Voting is a right you have to register to exercise. There's no infringement on that right in doing so. Same goes for guns.

So who's right? Liberals who want to eliminate voter registration or gun fetishists who want to eliminate gun registration?

Both sides are off their trolley, honestly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carolinajack View Post
I have my second amendment right to keep and bear arms, as you and I have or right to freedom of speech, assembly, of the press and of religion(which some try and twist to say freedom from religion).
Right. And?

Quote:
Originally Posted by carolinajack View Post
No, there is an agenda to thwart the 2nd Amendment, but those same people are the ones screaming about freedom of speech and press.
Maybe there is. But registering guns doesn't prevent you from owning them, just like registering to vote doesn't prevent you from voting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carolinajack View Post
all of these rights were given over 200 years ago, so one being old makes them all old.
So what's your point? Does old mean invalid? Not in my opinion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carolinajack View Post
you may give up your right to speech, but I wont give up my right to keep and bear arms, or to speech, assembly, religion or the vote.
No one's asking you to.
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Old 02-23-2007, 09:19 AM
 
Location: Tampa Bay
1,020 posts, read 3,014,707 times
Reputation: 443
okay so if the government were to say turn against the good people they would be corrupt right?

Now assuming they were corrupt. Wouldnt their system be corrupt also? How would you know which laws were made laws in advance to specifically adress a fallout by the people? Supposing this were the case, how would the people be able to register for their firearms? Wouldnt the said government that was corrupted be the very ones they had to go through to acquire their right?
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Old 02-23-2007, 09:27 AM
 
3,042 posts, read 7,939,731 times
Reputation: 1147
exactly, old doesnt mean invalid, others were saying that it was a 200 year old amendment that is invalid today, I was arguing that it isnt, anymore than the voters rights for blacks 100 plus years ago should not be invalid just because it is an old amendment

the government should not be in my home telling me what my legal rights arent, they take an oath to Uphold the constitution not interpret it. they make laws, the courts interpret and the president executes or carries out the law.

the law states that lawfully i have the right to bear arms, as I do to vote. In cases where I am a felon, a child, and other circumstances--then I understand but lawful ownership without registration or confiscation.
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Old 02-23-2007, 09:32 AM
 
Location: Haddington, E. Lothian, Scotland
752 posts, read 593,861 times
Reputation: 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by carolinajack View Post
the law states that lawfully i have the right to bear arms, as I do to vote. In cases where I am a felon, a child, and other circumstances--then I understand but lawful ownership without registration or confiscation.
This is where I don't get you guys. You acknowledge you have the right to own a gun and the right to vote. You don't have a problem with registering to vote, but you have a problem with registering a gun.

Do you see the disconnect here? Why does registering to vote not lead to the removal of that right, as you suppose it does when registering your gun?
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Old 02-23-2007, 09:45 AM
 
3,042 posts, read 7,939,731 times
Reputation: 1147
i dont necessarily think we as legal citizens should have to register actually. If we are of legal age and can prove who we are, are not a felon, then I am not for all the registration.

we have to know that felons, ex cons, illegal aliens and people are not voting or voting twice.

I dont have a problem with background checks to see if I have committed a felony before purchasing a handgun or if I am of legal age. But registering my gun with the government> No way. that is why we dont have a King here, a supreme ruler--the government answers to the people and not the other way around.

ex. I am vehmently anti abortion but, in cases of rape or the mothers health, I would like the final word to be the doctor and his her patient NOT the government. those are my libertarians strains, but I will work to change laws which are murderous.
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Old 02-23-2007, 11:10 AM
 
Location: Haddington, E. Lothian, Scotland
752 posts, read 593,861 times
Reputation: 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by carolinajack View Post
i dont necessarily think we as legal citizens should have to register actually. If we are of legal age and can prove who we are, are not a felon, then I am not for all the registration.
Terrific. So you'd make our voting system as impervious to abuse as our employment system? As we all know from experience, it's impossible for an illegal to make a fake ID.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carolinajack View Post
we have to know that felons, ex cons, illegal aliens and people are not voting or voting twice.
So short of registration, how do you propose to do that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by carolinajack View Post
I dont have a problem with background checks to see if I have committed a felony before purchasing a handgun or if I am of legal age. But registering my gun with the government> No way. that is why we dont have a King here, a supreme ruler--the government answers to the people and not the other way around.
There are plenty of other representative democracies around the world with gun registration laws. Most are pretty accountable to their citizens. In fact, some don't even need a court to figure out who gets to be president. King or no king.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carolinajack View Post
ex. I am vehmently anti abortion but, in cases of rape or the mothers health, I would like the final word to be the doctor and his her patient NOT the government. those are my libertarians strains, but I will work to change laws which are murderous.
???
Where on Earth did this come from?
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Old 02-23-2007, 11:28 AM
 
Location: Spots Wyoming
18,696 posts, read 35,415,173 times
Reputation: 2147483647
Quote:
Originally Posted by FistFightingHairdresser View Post
This is where I don't get you guys. You acknowledge you have the right to own a gun and the right to vote. You don't have a problem with registering to vote, but you have a problem with registering a gun.

Do you see the disconnect here? Why does registering to vote not lead to the removal of that right, as you suppose it does when registering your gun?
That's a very good point. But here is my reason. Nobody has threatened to take away my voting rights. So I have no heartburn to register to vote. However, confiscating weapons has been threatened. Matter of fact, many years ago, the threat was mentioned and then they said, "Even if we have to do it one phase at a time, first we will get them to register their guns, that way we know what numbers we're up against. Then we can go into the next phase."
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Old 02-23-2007, 11:58 AM
 
Location: Haddington, E. Lothian, Scotland
752 posts, read 593,861 times
Reputation: 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by jgussler View Post
That's a very good point. But here is my reason. Nobody has threatened to take away my voting rights.
Says you. For most of this country's history there have been segments of the American population, millions of them in fact, who not only had their votes threatened but actually denied. It was an institutionalized denial of Constitutional rights. Registration had nothing to do with it.

So if there is going to be a mass confiscation of guns, I daresay the government doesn't need the pretext of registration to get it done. They can just illegalize them, go door to door, round them up and that's that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jgussler View Post
So I have no heartburn to register to vote. However, confiscating weapons has been threatened. Matter of fact, many years ago, the threat was mentioned and then they said, "Even if we have to do it one phase at a time, first we will get them to register their guns, that way we know what numbers we're up against. Then we can go into the next phase."
Who's "they"?
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Old 02-23-2007, 12:05 PM
 
Location: Spots Wyoming
18,696 posts, read 35,415,173 times
Reputation: 2147483647
Quote:
Originally Posted by FistFightingHairdresser View Post
Says you. For most of this country's history there have been segments of the American population, millions of them in fact, who not only had their votes threatened but actually denied. It was an institutionalized denial of Constitutional rights. Registration had nothing to do with it.

So if there is going to be a mass confiscation of guns, I daresay the government doesn't need the pretext of registration to get it done. They can just illegalize them, go door to door, round them up and that's that.



Who's "they"?
Don't exactly remember who it was because it was several years ago. But it was a typical debate or campain speech.

As to going door to door? They're not coming in my house without a search warrant and then it's going to specify what it is and where they expect to find it. If legal people, wish to remain legal and come forth and register. Now they will have no guns. However, the criminals, won't register, they will still have theirs.

"Says You". To my understanding, yes. I had not heard of what you mentioned but welcome the insite. Do not, dip so low as to sling crap like "Says you". It's like calling somebody a liar. You could be up front and say, "Well I've heard different."
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Old 02-23-2007, 12:25 PM
 
Location: Haddington, E. Lothian, Scotland
752 posts, read 593,861 times
Reputation: 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by jgussler View Post
Don't exactly remember who it was because it was several years ago. But it was a typical debate or campain speech.
Well, I'll ignore it then until we can attribute the statement to a source.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jgussler View Post
If legal people, wish to remain legal and come forth and register. Now they will have no guns.

Your logic doesn't follow here. Where do you get the conclusion that they will have no guns if they register them? Registration is a process to match the gun to its legal owner. If the owner has no gun, or if it's taken away, there's nothing to register.

If the government really wanted your guns, they'd just arrest you and take them. Why bother with registration?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jgussler View Post
"Says You". To my understanding, yes. I had not heard of what you mentioned but welcome the insite. Do not, dip so low as to sling crap like "Says you". It's like calling somebody a liar. You could be up front and say, "Well I've heard different."
Nah, I like the way I said it better.

So you didn't hear that blacks and women didn't have the vote for over a century?
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