U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 01-24-2007, 01:05 AM
 
Location: Tennessee
1,459 posts, read 4,040,439 times
Reputation: 876

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by jest721 View Post
I've seen this data set before on the internet, but never from a verifiable source, and not in it's original context. And I can't find it anywhere in the FBI or INS database.
All those facts are a bit tough to swallow aren't they? The low immigrant good for the economy. ROTF

 
Old 01-24-2007, 07:39 AM
 
Location: South Bay, California
1,701 posts, read 5,846,862 times
Reputation: 330
I liken this thread to people venting their anger over illegal immigration with politically incorrect statements, and people with logical statements to help curb illegal immigration in an appropriate matter.
 
Old 01-24-2007, 08:04 AM
 
1,398 posts, read 6,017,866 times
Reputation: 1788
Amavel, I enjoy responding to intelligently posted thoughts such as yours. Virtually all of the posts on the relocation forums are, and are intended to be, ancedotal, apparently by this forums' own design. I have posted occasional charts, items from sources that are meant to be linked, and have been chided by the mods for utilizing copywritten material, even though these legally were "cleared" for same. (Therefore I tend to post my own photos these days.)(I'll alert you to future ones if you wish.) There are posters on other state forums that are exalted for showing charts of stats, so apparently I haven't come upon the magic formula.

Thus anecdotal is the template here. Readers throughout these forums are encouraged to "read between the lines," as I explained to another, from the different points of view and extract what they can perceive. Another L.A. thread here pointed out that once one sees anecdotal post after anecdotal post after anecotal post from stranger after stranger after stranger, once gets a sense that there are truths to be seen in its compilation, ergo, this is neither coincidence nor isolated incidents.

I post to give a sense of lower middle class realities in Los Angeles, as initally I was aghast at some of the points of view of people that don't even live there pontificating about same. I live amongst illegals, most don't. Most distressing to me personally is the sense of deja vu of "the bad old days" I personally witnessed in the South in the 1950's. This country has worked long and hard to get past prejudice and correct wrongs, and to have seen it all over again, except this time from people from another country who move here, frequently unlawfully, only to do everything they can to show their dislike of the citizens here or anyone else not from their "home country" is scary.
 
Old 01-24-2007, 08:42 AM
 
173 posts, read 371,932 times
Reputation: 267
Quote:
Originally Posted by fastfilm View Post
This country has worked long and hard to get past prejudice and correct wrongs, and to have seen it all over again, except this time from people from another country who move here, frequently unlawfully, only to do everything they can to show their dislike of the citizens here or anyone else not from their "home country" is scary.
I think you sum it up nicely.

I really think you hit right-on, where our most deep seated fears lie. That is why we are feeling sooo overwhelmed, along with feeling a sense of helplessness to stop the coming onslaught.
 
Old 01-24-2007, 09:47 AM
 
Location: Shallow alcove hidden from the telescreen
2,798 posts, read 9,703,219 times
Reputation: 1430
Quote:
Originally Posted by BerryPie View Post
...feeling sooo overwhelmed, along with feeling a sense of helplessness to stop the coming onslaught.
BINGO, though I would substitute "onslaught" with "illegal immigration" to stay clearly focused on the problem without modifiers. The problem has grown beyond this country's ability to handle from an enforcement standpoint alone, and that's OUR problem.

But that doesn't mean anyone is helpless. One of the things I've always admired about the U.S. was its ability to take a negative and turn it into a positive. I firmly believe that it's still within the brain-power of the U.S. to do so with the current problem of illegal immigration.

If enforcement alone won't do the job, how can we turn the scenario around to work to our benefit? Just an aside, it's not only Mexicans and Central Americans, but also all those who enter via airports and overstay their visits.
 
Old 01-24-2007, 09:51 AM
 
Location: South Bay, California
1,701 posts, read 5,846,862 times
Reputation: 330
I'll give Cre8 a round of applause!
 
Old 01-24-2007, 10:08 AM
 
Location: Shallow alcove hidden from the telescreen
2,798 posts, read 9,703,219 times
Reputation: 1430
Quote:
Originally Posted by dusesean1986 View Post
I'll give Cre8 a round of applause!
Much appreciated. Thank ya'!
 
Old 01-24-2007, 10:36 AM
 
Location: Small patch of terra firma
1,275 posts, read 2,123,590 times
Reputation: 536
Quote:
Originally Posted by fastfilm View Post
I post to give a sense of lower middle class realities in Los Angeles, as initally I was aghast at some of the points of view of people that don't even live there pontificating about same. I live amongst illegals, most don't.
fastfilm, I grew up and lived around LA most of my life and actually used to work in downtown for many years. I have seen both sides of the illegal immigrant. From those only committing crimes and taking from the system to the lower wage migrant farm worker trying to earn money for their family. While enforcement should be on those who continue to subvert our laws, the ones who continue to break a new law not the “still here illegally so they broke the law regardless” but those that devalue our society.

The perspective you and many others may not be seeing is the economic view of what the lower wage illegal immigrant contributes to our economy. I’m sure you remember a while back when tomato prices went up. Most restaurants had signs that tomatoes added by request or were extra. Most people I interacted with only saw that link, prices in the store of tomatoes are high and so restaurants had to add a surcharge. They didn’t understand that other business were affected, pizza places and Italian restaurants were hit because guess what the base of the marinara sauce is? Salsa makers and ketchup makers had to adjust their numbers too. Walk by the food aisle and look at how many items use tomatoes. It’s enormous and this was just a tomato. Companies didn’t just adjust their numbers, employees had to feel the pinch also. Every change has an affect and people need to follow the chain.

The fact is there is a huge number (anecdotally) of lower wage illegal immigrants that contribute to the economy in many industries such as textiles, construction, farming, and many others. Do I think that if they were all gone would Americans step up and take their place? I personally don’t think we would. There would be a lot but not everyone one would. Plus we as Americans have a sense of entitlement too and of the need for high competitive wages. So who’s to say that a company will want to dip into their profit margin to raise those salaries? Many feel that they will follow the lower wage workers. If Americans stepped up and the companies raised the salaries, because I’m not confident that we as Americans would accept the same rate as the illegal immigrant, they would probably pass those costs on to the consumer.

So my tomato example just got became, clothing, all produce, construction, lets see, stores would raise rates because the cleaning company they use doesn’t use lower wage workers and so they have to pay higher fees that get passed on to us, etc… Everything is affected. Can you imagine the impact to our economy? So the perspective is not just limited to a law enforcement or “cultural identity” issue for America, it is an economic issue and I would not want to live through a depression. I’d rather try a reasonable and workable solution that considers all factors including the affect to our economy. What is stalling the debate are those who only want to focus on enforcement and not the economy and those who only want to focus on the economy and not enforcement. It actually needs to be a balance of both.
 
Old 01-24-2007, 10:50 AM
 
Location: Colorado
10,017 posts, read 16,690,837 times
Reputation: 2086
If we let these illegals doing these so called jobs americans wont do become citizens and then have to pay taxes and contribute fully, and would have to pay the penalties of not paying for the their medical care such as lawsuits and bad credit. Do you think they would jump at the chance or continue to be illegal so they didnt have a chunk of their checks taking out and could still recieve the free services they do and wouldnt be able to afford to send home lots of manoey to their families in wherever?
 
Old 01-24-2007, 10:55 AM
 
1,398 posts, read 6,017,866 times
Reputation: 1788
Step 1., stop being knee-jerk apologists for illegal immigrants. These are people who shouldn't be here and have chosen to break a Federal statute bigtime. The mindset of lawbreakers is that the laws don't apply to them, and it becomes their continual pattern. This parallels the mindset of career criminals. This is not defensible.

Step 2., Stop illegals' knee-jerk hatred of all others not from their specific foreign country. I just cringe when I hear people speaking Spanish refering to anyone born east of Hawaii as "chinee," or the bad words directed at me, a total stranger, when I walk by.

Step 3., A humorist once marveled at why people would move halfway around the world to serve bad food to people from their own country who also moved halfway around the world. Similarly, why would a choice be made to come to a place peopled by populaces, laws and customs that one despises? I've heard the brunt of so much misogyny and disparaging remarks about the U.S. from foreign nationals on continual basis. If you love hamburger, you shouldn't move to India. If you hate American ways, values, laws, independent women, laws protecting animals and children, code enforcement and public safety laws, why would you choose to come to the U.S. only to make defiance of them your way of life? People I've known who move to other countries for work situations accept the givens of that land, and don't demand all laws and social practices be changed to suit them. The miracle of America working heretofore as a democracy made up of people from many backgrounds and origins is that there is a common ground of American ideals we strive for, and accept. If one hates Americans, our ways and our laws, again, why be here? It's "e pluribus unum," not vice versa.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Closed Thread

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top