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Old 01-26-2007, 11:50 AM
 
1,393 posts, read 873,191 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jest721 View Post
Funny, as an American I thought that this is exactly the sort of right that every American is born with, and that we hope to enable and encourage in every country in the world.
Dusesean1986, You really need to go back and read through this thread you are confused:..... I was talking with jest721 and I believe we got a little side tracked. The above shows were we started.

If you think Mexico has respect for our country then you need to drink more coffee and wake up. When Fox heard about the fence is only reply was Mexico doesn't like the U.S. decision for the fence because it would make it inconvenient for his people to get through. Never once trying to help us with this huge burden of his people. Where is Mexico in this big plan to help there people send them to America he doesn't care. Maybe the new President will help out he seems to want to get rid of the drug cartel it's a start.

Fox has done nothing just because, he hasn't gone on t.v. announcing discontent for Americans it shows in how he has done NOTHING to help the PROBLEM!!

 
Old 01-26-2007, 12:30 PM
 
743 posts, read 1,153,397 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wildberries61 View Post
If Mexico took better care of their people they would not need us as much. I have a friend who is married to a women from Mexico her family has 300 acres of fine land but, Mexico will not give them the water rights to this land so, that he can raise his goats. 10 years ago he moved part of his family here to raise goats in Nevada and still returns to Mexico to take care of his dry land. She has told me they would move back if the land was usable.

This is Mexico's problem why would you think it should be ours? Why is Mexico not being held accountable for starving their people if that is whats going on? I personally believe they are trying to reclaim the U.S. otherwise why is California now 60 percent Hispanic. I grew up their and we had Hispanics but, it wasn't as noticeable as it is now.

I don't understand your genocide comparison.
I was only stating that they are coming here in droves, but only because their government enables it. They are not being forced to flee because they are being routinely assassinated, only because of poor political leadership.
However, you did point out something telling.
Under Stalin's reign of terror, millions of Soviets were starved literally to death because of his policies. No one would have denied any of those citizens, particularly in the Ukraine, amnesty in the US. While Fox's rule is not nearly as brutal, why should we deny Mexican's the same opportunity. It is really for the same reason, government mismanagement. (Actually I think mismanagement is grossly simplistic in describing Stalin.) Although the two policies vary in degree, they are similar in principle.
We have a history of making other people's problems our own, political asylum, and immigration are products of this.
 
Old 01-26-2007, 01:13 PM
 
Location: Shallow alcove hidden from the telescreen
2,798 posts, read 9,722,220 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wildberries61 View Post
If you think Mexico has respect for our country then you need to drink more coffee and wake up. When Fox heard about the fence is only reply was Mexico doesn't like the U.S. decision for the fence because it would make it inconvenient for his people to get through. Never once trying to help us with this huge burden of his people. Where is Mexico in this big plan to help there people send them to America he doesn't care. Maybe the new President will help out he seems to want to get rid of the drug cartel it's a start.

Fox has done nothing just because, he hasn't gone on t.v. announcing discontent for Americans it shows in how he has done NOTHING to help the PROBLEM!!
Just for the record, Mexico has its own immigration and migration challenges. Illegal immigration to Mexico at its border with Guatemala is a huge problem. The draw? "El Norte" (aka the USA). Wouldn't it be easy for Mexico to levy blame for this on the U.S., but Mexico doesn't. Mexico also has a big problem with its rural population flooding the cities in Mexico looking for work. My point is that Mexico already has its hands full. I think it's important to remember this before we accuse her of "doing nothing."

I think the claim of Mexico's in-general disrespect for the U.S. is lopsided. The two countries have been allies and at peace for a long time. Culturally, northern Mexico has hugely adopted "Americanisms" -- from clothing and consumer choices to football and Budweiser. This to me is a compliment, not disrespect.
 
Old 01-26-2007, 03:55 PM
 
1,393 posts, read 873,191 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jest721 View Post
I was only stating that they are coming here in droves, but only because their government enables it. They are not being forced to flee because they are being routinely assassinated, only because of poor political leadership.
However, you did point out something telling.
Under Stalin's reign of terror, millions of Soviets were starved literally to death because of his policies. No one would have denied any of those citizens, particularly in the Ukraine, amnesty in the US. While Fox's rule is not nearly as brutal, why should we deny Mexican's the same opportunity. It is really for the same reason, government mismanagement. (Actually I think mismanagement is grossly simplistic in describing Stalin.) Although the two policies vary in degree, they are similar in principle.
We have a history of making other people's problems our own, political asylum, and immigration are products of this.
Okay, But is Mexico's government mismanagement OUR problem? What if OUR fore fathers had given up and not established laws and a system of government were would we be. Mexico is a country of no laws. I understand that it's the government. But, isn't this were the U.N. is suppose to step in and insist on control of your country and feeding their people and suppling jobs.
We can not absorb all of their people or we will be just like them. Is this the future you want for your child. Overcrowd schools, having to take Spanish class it's one thing if you want to learn another if you don't and this class is an elective now, not mandatory. Competing for work with non-speaking English people who some don't really want to live here just want the jobs and they can travel back and forth and always have a place to live and a job and free health care and social security. You and I will be lucky to have this and we pay the mighty dollar for it.
My solution is to make some kind of treaty with Mexico that Americans can own land there have jobs, bring businesses, help make it a tourist destination. At this time they can own land here and have jobs and Americans are not allowed to do this in Mexico. Americans own land in other countries but, not Mexico. We would be an assit to there country. But, I believe the governments dislike for Americans will prevent this from happening.
 
Old 01-26-2007, 04:00 PM
 
1,393 posts, read 873,191 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cre8 View Post
Just for the record, Mexico has its own immigration and migration challenges. Illegal immigration to Mexico at its border with Guatemala is a huge problem. The draw? "El Norte" (aka the USA). Wouldn't it be easy for Mexico to levy blame for this on the U.S., but Mexico doesn't. Mexico also has a big problem with its rural population flooding the cities in Mexico looking for work. My point is that Mexico already has its hands full. I think it's important to remember this before we accuse her of "doing nothing."

I think the claim of Mexico's in-general disrespect for the U.S. is lopsided. The two countries have been allies and at peace for a long time. Culturally, northern Mexico has hugely adopted "Americanisms" -- from clothing and consumer choices to football and Budweiser. This to me is a compliment, not disrespect.
So, because Mexico dosen't protect it's borders that's OUR problem also? I have know problem with them adopting Americanism in their country. But, they can not send there illegals & unwanted criminals to OUR Country. A spoke person for Mexico was on the t.v. the other day blaming gang actitivy,baggy pants rude attiudes, drug dealing started with their kids coming to America. Give me a break!! They have brought all of this with them.
 
Old 01-26-2007, 04:07 PM
 
743 posts, read 1,153,397 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wildberries61 View Post
Okay, But is Mexico's government mismanagement OUR problem? ... having to take Spanish class it's one thing if you want to learn another if you don't and this class is an elective now, not mandatory. ...
My solution is to make some kind of treaty with Mexico that Americans can own land there have jobs, bring businesses, help make it a tourist destination. At this time they can own land here and have jobs and Americans are not allowed to do this in Mexico. Americans own land in other countries but, not Mexico. We would be an assit to there country. But, I believe the governments dislike for Americans will prevent this from happening.
To answer your first question, yes it is our problem. I'll give you just one example: During the Albanian genocide, thousands emigrated to the US and claimed political asylum. This was because the government in the region was killing the governed. Of course we would not deny them asylum. If the Mexican government is effectively starving its people through policies that eliminate agriculture, they are doing the same thing.
You don't have to be a citizen in the US to own property, only to get a loan. Similar laws exist in Mexico, and this is a popular choice for many retirees.
 
Old 01-26-2007, 06:42 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jest721 View Post
To answer your first question, yes it is our problem. I'll give you just one example: During the Albanian genocide, thousands emigrated to the US and claimed political asylum. This was because the government in the region was killing the governed. Of course we would not deny them asylum. If the Mexican government is effectively starving its people through policies that eliminate agriculture, they are doing the same thing.
You don't have to be a citizen in the US to own property, only to get a loan. Similar laws exist in Mexico, and this is a popular choice for many retirees.
Now I have heard you can only lease in Mexico if not a citizen and I have heard retirees say they take little because, it can be taken away from them there's no security. Which, we give them plenty of security here and some retirees from here have a lot of money to contibute to their country.
As far as loans then why are banks going broke and mortage companies that have claimed to have given loans to immigrants legal and they are not being paid back?
 
Old 01-26-2007, 06:45 PM
 
743 posts, read 1,153,397 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wildberries61 View Post
Now I have heard you can only lease in Mexico if not a citizen and I have heard retirees say they take little because, it can be taken away from them there's no security. Which, we give them plenty of security here and some retirees from here have a lot of money to contibute to their country.
As far as loans then why are banks going broke and mortage companies that have claimed to have given loans to immigrants legal and they are not being paid back?
It's technically illegal to give a mortgage to an illegal, so they have made their own mess. Few countries approach the legal protection of property rights the US offers.
 
Old 01-26-2007, 10:24 PM
 
Location: Shallow alcove hidden from the telescreen
2,798 posts, read 9,722,220 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wildberries61 View Post
So, because Mexico dosen't protect it's borders that's OUR problem also? I have know problem with them adopting Americanism in their country. But, they can not send there illegals & unwanted criminals to OUR Country. A spoke person for Mexico was on the t.v. the other day blaming gang actitivy,baggy pants rude attiudes, drug dealing started with their kids coming to America. Give me a break!! They have brought all of this with them.
Why do you maintain that Mexico doesn't protect its borders? What does Mexico gain by letting people stream across its southern border unchecked? This doesn't make sense. And what do you mean that Mexico sends its "unwanted criminals" to the U.S. You mean that it's done on purpose? Some conspiracy between Mexican jail wardens and coyotes or something? Now it's your turn to give ME a break!

But to echo my last post, you should understand that Mexico is faced with a daunting task of its own, dealing with not just international immigration, but domestic migration to its cities. Plus, Mexico's immigration problem is primarily because people heading for the U.S. Imagine your country in Mexico's shoes; imagine Canada being the reason for your immigration problem at Mexico. So give Mexico a break, too. They're dealing with a problem that has more to do with the U.S. than Mexico.
 
Old 01-26-2007, 10:57 PM
 
1,393 posts, read 873,191 times
Reputation: 462
Quote:
Originally Posted by cre8 View Post
Why do you maintain that Mexico doesn't protect its borders? What does Mexico gain by letting people stream across its southern border unchecked? This doesn't make sense. And what do you mean that Mexico sends its "unwanted criminals" to the U.S. You mean that it's done on purpose? Some conspiracy between Mexican jail wardens and coyotes or something? Now it's your turn to give ME a break!

But to echo my last post, you should understand that Mexico is faced with a daunting task of its own, dealing with not just international immigration, but domestic migration to its cities. Plus, Mexico's immigration problem is primarily because people heading for the U.S. Imagine your country in Mexico's shoes; imagine Canada being the reason for your immigration problem at Mexico. So give Mexico a break, too. They're dealing with a problem that has more to do with the U.S. than Mexico.
Maybe, you could run for President of Mexico!!!
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