Black in America (Condi Rice, Colin Powell, 9/11, American)

[BigJon3475]

Please don't take this the wrong way....is it possible for you to edit out the font so I can get a slightly clearer picture of what your saying?

[ButterBrownBiscuit]

I can only speak for myself - I don't avoid discussions about race for fear of being labelled a racist or because it's a sensitive subject. I don't discuss race because I personally believe some people are unwilling to look at reality even when the truth is right in front of their face.

~ButterBrownBiscuit~

Originally Posted by BigJon3475

When are people going to take responsibility for themselves?

What about the attitudes of some....walking around with chips on their shoulder making rude comments constantly and complaining about people holding them back....Well what do you expect your walking around with your face bald up not in a happy mood...you have a giant marijuana leaf on your shirt (one example) and you refer to your entire race of people in a racial slur..."Just one doing it is enough to complain about"

These are just things I noticed the other day in the court room. I know people are all different. Look at the statistics though for unwed parents in the black community and children with no fathers/mothers. Before people get all angry about everyone else mis-treating them at least have the dignity to start changing yourself. And no this does not represent every African American or any other race for that matter it may even be a small percentage...maybe even less than 1% but even then. "Just one not doing it is enough to complain about"

For the most part because the tension is high the subject really can't be debated because if their is an opposition (which is required for all debates) They will be scared to be 100% truthful and watch every single word that comes out of their mouth for the fear of being labeled a racist.

[BigJon3475]

Originally Posted by ButterBrownBiscuit

I can only speak for myself - I don't avoid discussions about race for fear of being labelled a racist or because it's a sensitive subject. I don't discuss race because I personally believe some people are unwilling to look at reality even when the truth is right in front of their face.

~ButterBrownBiscuit~

I understand that. It's just hard to even get an idea what people are going through if you have any opposition to their thinking you end up being labeled and therefore your opinion or statements have no meaning after that because then all you are is a bigot.....In reality you were only opposing one idea but with the general notions of trying to fix the problem.


I wish it could all change. I wish we could ignore *today* colors.....all the while not forgetting the past obviously...history is always important.

[BigJon3475]

Originally Posted by jlhct

I agree with the earlier post about dressing properly and being responsible for your own actions, but take this scenario into account:

There is an employee who conducts themselves professionally, has an education, dresses appropriately, etc who works at a company with older people that may still hold on to how things were run in the past, that feel minorities act exactly like the image put forth in the media or are uncomfortable having minorities in higher postiions since it never used to be that way?

In this scenario, what can be done about it? from the minority's point of view, they are doing everything that everyone says is the right thing to do: Get an education, act appropriately, dress well, but if you have others at the company who hold onto those prejudices it definitely can cause a problem when it comes to advancement.

I hope, among other subjects, the series touches on this as well.

Very true.

If we could manage to lower the tension level we can make progress. But with people exciting tensions every time something happens...we are at a stand still and have been since the 60's. And that can be said for any color.

[ButterBrownBiscuit]

I hear what you are saying. But part of the problem is that black people aren't allowed to tell our "truth" without having it dissected, critiqued, etc.

I am a 40 year old black woman. Now, imagine if you we telling me about the pressures that you feel as a man - whatever they may be. More than likely, you would wonder how I know more about being a man than you do. You might think it very presumptuous of me to say that you don't have it that hard. Well, that is the way that many black folks feel.

~ButterBrownBiscuit~

Originally Posted by BigJon3475

I understand that. It's just hard to even get an idea what people are going through if you have any opposition to their thinking you end up being labeled and therefore your opinion or statements have no meaning after that because then all you are is a bigot.....In reality you were only opposing one idea but with the general notions of trying to fix the problem.


I wish it could all change. I wish we could ignore *today* colors.....all the while not forgetting the past obviously...history is always important.

[BigJon3475]

Originally Posted by ButterBrownBiscuit

I am a long time lurker at City Data and was motivated to finally register and post in response to the comment by Ciaerin. In general, I do not discuss issues related to race with non-black people (white people especially) primarily because I feel there is this strange “disconnect” and difference in perception that exists across racial lines. However, I felt I needed to respond to the suggestion that the employment disparity is somehow a byproduct of the current fashion trend. It is not.

All of the statistical data that is available points to the fact that there is a clear preference towards hiring white people. There have been numerous studies which show

People with “black” names (Jamal, Keshia) are less likely to be contacted/interviewed for job opportunities than those with “white” names (Heather, Bob), even when they have the same experience and skills.

White men, with only a high school diploma/GED and a felony conviction, are more likely to be employed than black men with a college degree and a clean criminal history.

Black people are routinely paid less than their white counterparts, even when they have the same experience, education and job performance.

These are not issues that are the result of negative behavior from black people. They are however, the result of the systemic and institutionalized racism that is embedded into the fabric of our society and that takes place every day. So the notion that black people are going to “stop complaining” or addressing the issue, is simply not going to happen. More to the point, if we truly were a color-blind society, we wouldn’t even be asked to do so.


~ButterBrownBiscuit~

Thanks. I agree I have no argument for that. How do we move forward without addressing the constant bombardment of white America being racist?

It's a snowball effect of protecting each others own. As soon as racism is brought up at all or someone is being blatantly racist both sides turn into defense mode and nothing ever get's accomplished.

[BigJon3475]

Originally Posted by ButterBrownBiscuit

I hear what you are saying. But part of the problem is that black people aren't allowed to tell our "truth" without having it dissected, critiqued, etc.

I am a 40 year old black woman. Now, imagine if you we telling me about the pressures that you feel as a man - whatever they may be. More than likely, you would wonder how I know more about being a man than you do. You might think it very presumptuous of me to say that you don't have it that hard. Well, that is the way that many black folks feel.

~ButterBrownBiscuit~

The "Walk a mile in my shoes"

I understand....well as much as I can.


It would be hard for me to understand. Is there somehting better we can do if fair housing, equal rights, civil rights, affirmative action aren't working?

[laysayfair]

Originally Posted by ButterBrownBiscuit

I hear what you are saying. But part of the problem is that black people aren't allowed to tell our "truth" without having it dissected, critiqued, etc.

I am a 40 year old black woman. Now, imagine if you we telling me about the pressures that you feel as a man - whatever they may be. More than likely, you would wonder how I know more about being a man than you do. You might think it very presumptuous of me to say that you don't have it that hard. Well, that is the way that many black folks feel.

~ButterBrownBiscuit~

There is no "our truth". There's just truth and it can bear dissection and critique.

[Heaveno]

Originally Posted by ButterBrownBiscuit

I can only speak for myself - I don't avoid discussions about race for fear of being labelled a racist or because it's a sensitive subject. I don't discuss race because I personally believe some people are unwilling to look at reality even when the truth is right in front of their face.

~ButterBrownBiscuit~

Not to many like you that write on this forum. I say what I believe and feel and it is usually met with direct attacks or other controversies. It is a useless battle to debate or have a dialogue because many will never understand nor want to sincerely understand what it is like to be black here in America. Frankly they do not have to because it is our problem to address. I appreciate your input and I will P.M. you later this weekend. Many will also continue to speak to the subculture and although it has been mentioned that those of us who are educated, come from two parent households, worked hard, and blah, blah, and are still subjected to discrimination-usually will fall on death ears.

It is our reality and that is all that genuinely matters. We who have done everything required are the ones that will have to continue to address the injustices, because they exist for many of us who have done the hard work. The subculture looks at the dominant culture and our battles, so it makes it quite difficult for them to want to endure what we have to gain the successes that we worked extremely hard to get. I am definitely not saying it is right for them to think this way-but they are looking at our current realities. We just have to keep addressing the ongoing racism because it will always exist.

Many of these children will have to change their names to be employable. I am perturbed by some of these names that they have given their children. I have told black people to start naming their children Susan, Amy, Beth, Carol, Elizabeth, Deborah, Mary, etc. to give them a chance on paper because Keisha, Sheneka, and Sasha are just not going to cut the mustard in the HR dept.

The "whose most likely not to be employed test" based on a name you speak on has been repeated in many other places and the results stay the same. Wisconsin has excellent data on the job situation for blacks. I think they may be the "think tank" state to examine blacks and unemployment. The results are alarming. They gather data from all over the country. I will get you the websites and PM them to you.

[jlhct]

Originally Posted by BigJon3475

Very true.

If we could manage to lower the tension level we can make progress. But with people exciting tensions every time something happens...we are at a stand still and have been since the 60's. And that can be said for any color.

I think that viewing things more than one way helps. For example you hear some white people bring up Condi Rice & Colin Powell, making the connection that since they have excelled that all is over, and that is just not the case.
There has been a LOT of progress made, but there is still some way to go.