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The difference is that America had a United States Constitution which guaranteed freedom, liberty and the pursuit of happiness for all people, but did not extend those same freedoms to its own Black citizens.
You can't be a slave and a citizen. Blacks were barely considered human. Everyone must be judged in the context of the times in which they lived. Cannibals didn't know it was wrong to eat people. Everyone around them ate people, they had no reason to question it. Same goes for slavery. The important thing is what you do WHEN you realize you are doing something wrong. That's where America shines!
Last edited by laysayfair; 07-16-2008 at 01:35 PM..
Reason: add
How about the standard of human dignity and the belief that the creator imbeded into the hearts of all men the difference to know the difference between right and wrong, what is good and what is evil?
Furthermore, slavery was not "universally accepted throughout the world". Slavery was cruelty and there were many civilizations, tribes, communities that did not practice or believe in the enslavement of their fellow man.
It is difficult to view history through the eyes of men who lived back then.
It is abhorrent to think so today, but blacks weren't "citizens" when they were slaves. They were property - not human (BTW, as an interesting side-note, the 3/5ths compromise actually inured to the benefit of slaves by diminishing the voting power of slave states. It was SLAVE states that wanted to count its slave population in WHOLE, but the "free" states told them that since they were considered property by the SOuth, they couldn't get representation credit for every individual.)
Similarly, women were excluded from civic life and had no rights as well. They were "freer" that slaves in total, but still very much "property" of the men in their lives.
The Constitution represents a watershed step on the path to where we are today and where we are still going. "All men are created equal" was the first step in erasing the dividing line between the aristocracy and the commoner, the landed and the landless. Later, the task became expanding the definition of "men" to include black men, and then women, and finally children. As late as the 20th century 7 year olds worked 12 hour days in factories.
I never judge history through modern standards and morals. From the Romans to Ghehgis Khan to the Aztecs to Shaka Zulu. You must judge history through the prevailing attitudes and norms of the day. When slavery was universally accepted throughout the world, by what standard do you criticize the practice? When abolitionist movements began and became better known, THEN you can start judging those that still condoned the practice. It's not so much making excuses as it is understanding the world as it existed at the time.
After all, what will the future judge US for today as amoral that we deem acceptable and normal? Having pets? Eating animals? Driving cars?
It is difficult to view history through the eyes of men who lived back then.
It is abhorrent to think so today, but blacks weren't "citizens" when they were slaves. They were property - not human (BTW, as an interesting side-note, the 3/5ths compromise actually inured to the benefit of slaves by diminishing the voting power of slave states. It was SLAVE states that wanted to count its slave population in WHOLE, but the "free" states told them that since they were considered property by the SOuth, they couldn't get representation credit for every individual.)
The Constitution represents a watershed step on the path to where we are today and where we are still going. "All men are created equal" was the first step in erasing the dividing line between the aristocracy and the commoner, the landed and the landless. Later, the task became expanding the definition of "men" to include black men, and then women, and finally children. As late as the 20th century 7 year olds worked 12 hour days in factories.
I never judge history through modern standards and morals. From the Romans to Ghehgis Khan to the Aztecs to Shaka Zulu. You must judge history through the prevailing attitudes and norms of the day. When slavery was universally accepted throughout the world, by what standard do you criticize the practice? When abolitionist movements began and became better known, THEN you can start judging those that still condoned the practice. It's not so much making excuses as it is understanding the world as it existed at the time.
After all, what will the future judge US for today as amoral that we deem acceptable and normal? Having pets? Eating animals? Driving cars?
Excellent post. Too soon for me to rep you, though.
I might add that the English/American southern colonials, lacking the inherited tradition of slavery which the Spanish colonizers received from Roman law (and its provisions for some measure of human rights for those in bondage), made the truly tragic decision to classify Africans brought to the New World as chattel rather than as members of a human underclass.
The difference is that this my country, this is our country, we are Americans and we must not be blind to everything that made us what we are today. I am not giving any other country a free pass on anything, but as the greatest country in the world, we must be able to acknowledge our past sins.
And we knew that slavery was wrong, I don't think that any of our founders believed for a moment that there wouldn't be a very high price to pay for the continuation of slavery, they felt that is was worth it,they felt that in order to prosper financially and be an independent, strong nation that we needed slavery. They knew it was wrong.
How would they know it was wrong? Isn't there some line in the bible that says "slaves obey your masters"? Aren't there slaves in the bible and God Almighty never seems to have a problem with it? How could men know then what God himself didn't even seem to know?
Does the past of America make any less of the freedoms enjoyed by all today?I dare say that those that have fought and died for preserving it including black Americans think that America is valuable.
The founders were not gods,but they were intelligent.The American revolution started similar revolts around the world,ending alot of classism that once was normal.
You hit the nail somewhat. The freedom we try and preserve was founded on a double standard.
I don't doubt that many black americans as well as those from all "races" have fought for our country. But how many of them were poor or from bad inner city areas, that's the oldest recruiting trick ever, offer a bunch of poor kids $2k a month and it looks a lot better after a few weeks of mac and cheese.
This was not meant to be some american hating post, but rather one to bring to light issues that we over look. Sure we may have pictures of slavery, and we may be aware of the horrors of slavery, But we all like to pretend there is nothing wrong with the white american mind set that caused issues like slavery.
That is what I meant.
So come one come all and feel free to flame. just my opinion.
You hit the nail somewhat. The freedom we try and preserve was founded on a double standard.
I don't doubt that many black americans as well as those from all "races" have fought for our country. But how many of them were poor or from bad inner city areas, that's the oldest recruiting trick ever, offer a bunch of poor kids $2k a month and it looks a lot better after a few weeks of mac and cheese.
This was not meant to be some american hating post, but rather one to bring to light issues that we over look. Sure we may have pictures of slavery, and we may be aware of the horrors of slavery, But we all like to pretend there is nothing wrong with the white american mind set that caused issues like slavery.
That is what I meant.
So come one come all and feel free to flame. just my opinion.
How can a White American mindset cause slavery when slavery has been around for thousands of years, before there were any White Americans?
How would they know it was wrong? Isn't there some line in the bible that says "slaves obey your masters"? Aren't there slaves in the bible and God Almighty never seems to have a problem with it? How could men know then what God himself didn't even seem to know?
You're seriously quoting the bible in relation to this topic? Pathetic.
How would they know it was wrong? Isn't there some line in the bible that says "slaves obey your masters"? Aren't there slaves in the bible and God Almighty never seems to have a problem with it? How could men know then what God himself didn't even seem to know?
Hold on, let me go eat some shrimp...
OH **** It's Satan!
Let's not use the bible for today's moral standards.
How would they know it was wrong? Isn't there some line in the bible that says "slaves obey your masters"? Aren't there slaves in the bible and God Almighty never seems to have a problem with it? How could men know then what God himself didn't even seem to know?
First, I'm no biblical scholar, I do believe in God, but I know that God didn't write the bible, man did. So I am not relying on those words to guide my opinions.
Second, the fact that many of the founding fathers proclaimed their opposition to slavery leads me to my belief that they did know the wrongness of their action or inaction. They were, for the most part, enlightened and educated men. There is difference between being wrong and being unacceptable. Since slavery was accepted, they were able to compromise their beliefs for what they believed to be the greater good.
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