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very very true, I will not be voting for someone that is in office this time around, it is time for a cleaning of the government.
lol Me either well as far as State goes I plan to vote against every incumbent but for federal either Obama or Independent .
I will decide after the debates
That would be because the premise is untrue. There is NOT an equal fault for the disasters of these past eight years. These were Republican authored and implemented failures, carried out in demagogic conviction over the often well-founded but nevertheless ridiculed objections of others. The responsibility here is quite clear and it is quite one-sided. Only those in denial can claim otherwise.
You fail to support these claims. What pork? What earmarks? These are nothing but empty partisan cliches and buzzwords unless and until you are able to put some meat on those bones. The specific projects that actually end up securing funding are what were seen as the cream of the crop. For every one of those, there were ten that lost out in the competition for dollars even though many of those were worthwhile as well. Taxophobics have made sure that rather a lot of worthwhile things never get done. Are there still shenanigans and frauds? Sure. Just ask Jack Abramoff. Are these the norm? No. But don't let that fact distract you.
Actually, I work inside that government every day. In both the executive and legislative areas and on both a public and private sector basis. Been involved in this for better than three decades. I don't recognize what you describe. What's your frame of reference on this reality of yours?
And you want to talk about failure to recognize reality? Give me a break! You are not going to deport any 15 million people. There are no effective means for regaining control of our immigration situation that do not include some form of what you would call amnesty. You had a reasonably good, even if a bit vindictive, start point available in 2007 but scuttled it in favor of at least two more years of the status quo that you profess to hate so much. How clever was that?
The Berlin Wall didn't provide a secure border. The best one can hope for is effective border control, but you won't get nearly that when you continue to offer incentives to evade it. You need to make legal immigration cheaper and easier.
Who put the Enron Loophole in there, Mr. Non-partisan? Who's working to take it away? Who will resist (even filibuster) those efforts?
Drill what? And why? There is nothing out there for us to drill that would materially alter our current situation. We are better off continuing to buy oil from world markets that are willing to sell it to us at bargain prices. Our own oil is like money in the bank...it's worth more every day that we simply leave it where it is.
What's the minimum wage? When was the last time that went up? Maybe you're missing a thing or two. One of those might be how often "what the people want" actually comes up in policy development. The biggest problem there is that what the people want is often not possible or even remotely practical. There are a lot of people out there who should look a lot more deeply into some problems that they think they already have the answers for...
Sigh.
Go to citizens against gov waste websight. Or are they too partisan for you also?
Citizens Against Government Waste: (http://www.cagw.org/site/PageServer?pagename=reports_pigbook2008 - broken link)
17 billion in pork and ear mark projects. Both parties are guilty of the pork. Its not a partison issue.
Border security can never be air tight that goes without saying. But an open unpatroled border is a mistake and we are paying dearly for it. Which border is the problem? Well call me a racist for pointing out our problem with the northern border is very minor when compared to the southern side.
Oil is to be found off shore, in alaska and the Dakota's. Will it answer all the needs? NO but it will help more than sitting on our thumbs and pointing fingers at whose fault it is. They all had a hand in this. Why didn't lord in heaven Bill Clinton push for alternative fuels? Because its always been a low priority for both parties. Why isn't congress writing legeslation to push the alternative fuels agenda? Oh wait they did. Corn ethenol....
Why isn't congress writing laws to crack down on those who hire illegals. I mean laws with teeth? Could it be that many of them have illegals for house keepers nannies and landscapers?
No way do they get the walk on their do nothing performance. They don't even try to meet in the middle.
Min wage? For who not the majority of americans. It was good legeslation all the same. But that is one example of what they have done in 2 years.
Or do you refer to such things as non-binding resolutions?
Look at the pork list and explain to me how it is partisan. It lists both parties pork and in detail.
Sigh. Go to citizens against gov waste websight. Or are they too partisan for you also? 17 billion in pork and ear mark projects. Both parties are guilty of the pork. Its not a partison issue.
No, they're non-partisan, but the Pig Book that you want to take as your Pork Bible might as well be produced by the Cartoon Network. It's a PR and fundraising tool and nothing more. Ask them off the record, and they'd tell you the same themselves. They do no evaluation of whether the earmarks they include are for important or worthwhile purposes. They measure only the means by which a funding item made it into an appropriation bill. They have seven criteria...an item goes in if it meets any one of them. One is that the President did not request it. Another is that no hearings were held on the item. A third is that it was not competitively awarded. None of these or any other of the criteria relates to merit. (Neither, given the second and third above, do they relate to cost-cutting.)
But let's review what an earmark actually is. In most cases an earmark merely makes specific the uses to which a more general appropriation is to be put. For Purpose-A, Amount-B is appropriated, of which Amount-C shall be expended on Project-D. Take out the earmark, and Amount-C merely goes back into Amount-B, and is disbursed as the Executive branch sees fit rather than as the Legislative branch sees fit. Reduction in total federal expenditures: $0. Some earmarks are stand-alone items. For Project-A, Amount-B is appropriated. Growth of this type of earmark was exponential under the administration of Ronald Reagan who became notorious for refusing to spend appropriated funds and for spending them for purposes other than those identified as being funded during appropriation hearings. Congress still can't force a partisan President to spend all appropriated funds, but by the means of this sort of earmark, it can keep one from using appropriated funds for non-approved purposes.
But back to the Pig Book. A few years ago (there wasn't an actual Pig Book for FY2007 since diligent Republicans never got around to passing an appropriations bill for anyone but DOD and DHS), the Pig Book highlighted a $2.8 million earmark for research into the life cycle of the zebra mussel. How frivolous. Well, it turns out that the zebra mussel is a highly invasive species that has the capacity for crippling Great Lakes shipping by colonizing ship hulls and shutting down muncipal water systems by clogging up intake pipelines. The Coast Guard's projected cost for remediation of an unchecked zebra mussel population? $5 billion per year. So, which would you rather spend -- $3 million today or $5 billion ten years from today? This year's Pig Book includes a $188 thousand earmark (enough to fund operations in Iraq for 45 seconds) to the Lobster Institute. The Institute maintains the only database on North Atlantic lobster health that exists anywhere. Its data are relied upon in oversight and maintenance of a multi-billion dollar industry that exends all the way into every upscale restaurant coast to coast. The Institute is normally funded by the lobstering industry itself and by private donations and contributions. With the foundering national economy, both of those sources have been severely impacted. The earmark was meant as a bridge to maintain the lobster health database through hard times, rather than to see it and the valuable information it contains lost. But of course you wouldn't have seen any of that sort of thing included in the Pig Book. It doesn't go into any of that merit stuff at all.
CAGW itself actually does do some worthwhile studies, and, aside from its usually annual comic book, its work is generally taken seriously. They have for instance called for such things as elimination of White House anti-drug media programs, reductions in annual sugar subsidies (among others), and consolidation of overlapping rural economic aid programs in Alaska. Those are serious ideas with serious arguments underlying them. The Pig Book is not that at all. It is a gimmick targeting those who are interested in a National Enquirer-style view of their government and who might become riled up enough to send in their $25 as the result of reading it. It seems to work well enough for them, as there are many more people who have such limited interests than there really ought to be.
Border security can never be air tight that goes without saying. But an open unpatroled border is a mistake and we are paying dearly for it. Which border is the problem? Well call me a racist for pointing out our problem with the northern border is very minor when compared to the southern side.
You should perhaps look more closely at the northern border, and I assume that your claim that we are "paying dearly" for a southern border (that is not open and unpatrolled) is based entirely on such rubbish as is typically found over in the Immigration subforum. Illegal immigrants exist because we asked them to come and work here. Then we made it easier and cheaper for them to come and work here illegally than it is for them to come and work here legally. Until you reverse that relationship, we will continue to have substantial illegal immigration.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01
Why isn't congress writing laws to crack down on those who hire illegals. I mean laws with teeth? Could it be that many of them have illegals for house keepers nannies and landscapers?
Remember the big ICE crackdown on Colorado meat-packers? Ended up bussing about a thousand suspects down to Albuquerque and San Antonio (leaving their wives and children behind with no information or further means of support), interrogated them, arrested a couple on minor outstanding warrants, then simply released the rest of them where they were. Cost to Swift in lost production and retraining? About $30 million. They ended up selling off the whole operation to some outfit in Brazil. What a great victory for America!
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01
Oil is to be found off shore, in alaska and the Dakota's. Will it answer all the needs? NO but it will help more than sitting on our thumbs and pointing fingers at whose fault it is.
So, technological questions aside, you're still lining up four-square behind the idea of investing billions of dollars in wiping out our own oil reserves even though you know that it won't do any good at all? That's a terrific plan. Here's something to try first: close the Enron Loophole. Costs nothing and will have much larger effects much sooner.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01
They all had a hand in this. Why didn't lord in heaven Bill Clinton push for alternative fuels? Because its always been a low priority for both parties.
No, not always. Alternative fuels were an important part of the national energy policy assembled by Jimmy Carter. Then Ronald Reagan came along and deep-sixed the whole nine yards of it. Morning an America. It's okay to be selfish and greedy. No need to conserve or build for an alternate future. Consume, consume, consume. It's the American way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01
No way do they get the walk on their do nothing performance. They don't even try to meet in the middle.
There is no middle when the entire agenda of one side is to keep the other side from doing anything at all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01
Min wage? For who not the majority of americans. It was good legeslation all the same. But that is one example of what they have done in 2 years.
Yes, one example. One that was alleged not to exist. Also one of how you have to go seven different ways to eventuallly get even good legislation enacted. Also one example of many. Have you followed the legislative calendar? Have you seen any farm bills? Any energy bills? Any intelligence bills? Any veterans bills? And how many times now has S-CHIP been passed? Oh, and this Congress also had to do the FY2007 federal funding legislation that the previous Congress never bothered to get around to. Let's not forget about that one.
You should perhaps look more closely at the northern border, and I assume that your claim that we are "paying dearly" for a southern border (that is not open and unpatrolled) is based entirely on such rubbish as is typically found over in the Immigration subforum. Illegal immigrants exist because we asked them to come and work here. Then we made it easier and cheaper for them to come and work here illegally than it is for them to come and work here legally. Until you reverse that relationship, we will continue to have substantial illegal immigration.
Remember the big ICE crackdown on Colorado meat-packers? Ended up bussing about a thousand suspects down to Albuquerque and San Antonio (leaving their wives and children behind with no information or further means of support), interrogated them, arrested a couple on minor outstanding warrants, then simply released the rest of them where they were. Cost to Swift in lost production and retraining? About $30 million. They ended up selling off the whole operation to some outfit in Brazil. What a great victory for America!
So, technological questions aside, you're still lining up four-square behind the idea of investing billions of dollars in wiping out our own oil reserves even though you know that it won't do any good at all? That's a terrific plan. Here's something to try first: close the Enron Loophole. Costs nothing and will have much larger effects much sooner.
No, not always. Alternative fuels were an important part of the national energy policy assembled by Jimmy Carter. Then Ronald Reagan came along and deep-sixed the whole nine yards of it. Morning an America. It's okay to be selfish and greedy. No need to conserve or build for an alternate future. Consume, consume, consume. It's the American way.
There is no middle when the entire agenda of one side is to keep the other side from doing anything at all.
Yes, one example. One that was alleged not to exist. Also one of how you have to go seven different ways to eventuallly get even good legislation enacted. Also one example of many. Have you followed the legislative calendar? Have you seen any farm bills? Any energy bills? Any intelligence bills? Any veterans bills? And how many times now has S-CHIP been passed? Oh, and this Congress also had to do the FY2007 federal funding legislation that the previous Congress never bothered to get around to. Let's not forget about that one.
You spout dogma from a one sided view.
Neither side is functioning or doing what they were elected to do.
Illegals are a very real problem and many many average americans are paying the price for them. Who asked them to come here? Joe average tax payer? I don't think so. Big business? Maybe agriculture. Big Corps like procter &Gamble certainly don't knowingly hire them. I know I work for P&G to get hired you need proof of status and we did 17 years ago when I was hired.
Energy bills? Another joke? Agri bills? When will they help the dairy farmer? The small farmers accross america? Neither side has yet. In 1981 my family got $13.00 for a hundred pounds of milk. Its slightly more than that now.
Corn ethenol as an alternative fuel? Another scam and not at all veiled.
I am not for one side or the other They all deserve the same reward for such a lousy performance.
A walking path for a town of 400?
7million for the wine and grape industry. An industry that grossed 28 billion last year? A bridge to no where?
Attached millions to the defence budget to build a golf course? Thats not waste? This the tip of the iceberg.
In the 90's 500 grand to improve the taste of endive? The list and the shame knows no boundries.
House Speaker Nancy Pelosi called President Bush "a total failure" on Thursday, among the California Democrat's harshest assessments to date of the president.
"God bless him, bless his heart, president of the United States -- a total failure, losing all credibility with the American people on the economy, on the war, on energy, you name the subject," Pelosi told CNN's Wolf Blitzer in an exclusive interview.
The democratic congress approval rating is around 10%, lower than Bush. So which one is the total failure? According to the American people it's congress. With Bush a close second.
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