Iran Really DOES Have A Case For Nukes (enemy, death, racist)

[jimhcom]

If they continue on their present course they will have the right to exist as a smoking pile of rubble.

[tinman01]

Originally Posted by rb4browns

There is a very big difference between disagreeing with a given country's governmental policies and disagreeing with the existence of a country, as many of the as*clowns here seem to believe.

I don't sit here trying to say Iran has no right to exist, but they do not have a right to advocate for the destruction of another country. Again, the as*clown brigade can try and pretend that Ahmandinajad really wants friendship and brotherhood with the Jews of Israel, but those of us living in reality know he does not. When Iran stops threatening its neighbors with annihalation, stops funding and arming terrorist groups such as Hizballah and recognizes the rights of all its neighbros to live in peace and security then come back and talk to me about needing nukes.

How did Israel come about? No not the biblical Israel I mean the Israel of today? Mass migration and??????? Oh yes terrorist bombings and societal guilt over allowing Hitler and company to do what they did. The land that is called Israel today was british terratory if I am not mistaken. The Brits capitualated to the call for giving the survivors of the holocaust their own country. At whose expense? Oh yeah all the folks who were already living there. And you wonder at why there is hostilities? To make matters worse the Israeli's imeadietely started claiming lands regardless of occupation.
Eviction may be a polite word for it.
Yes Israel is now a country and a very prosperous one at that. I wonder why? Now why would Iran have a dispute with Israel? because of the mistreatment of paletinians who are also Muslems and right from the begining long before there was a P.L.O.? Could it be that Israel at any given time is also threatening Iran? Could it be that Israel gets a walk on every issue that the UN brings up and yet Iran gets looked at under the microscope for much the same issues?
Israel does have a right to exist. The real question is does Israel have more of a right to arm themselves with nukes than Iran? By the way where did Israel get those nukes anyway? Either we gave them to Israel or they developed them on their own. Either way isn't that a violation of the same codes we hold against Iran?
Make no mistake I don't want Iran to have nukes. Their track record of supplying terrorist orgs speaks for its self. At the same time lets not paint Israel as these goody goody guys because that they aint.

[geeoro]

Letting Iran develop a Nuclear Bomb will be like giving a machine gun to a five year old. Iran thinks that they can threaten other countries with destruction and get away with it, NO WAY JOSE. Iran funds international terrorism and is hell bent on destruction. We cannot afford to let them destroy the world. Bit late to say i told you so when a city in America has been anhialated because of the PC brigade favouring a Despot regime in Iran. Israel can and always will fight its own battles and that's what scares Iran.

[rb4browns]

Originally Posted by tinman01

How did Israel come about? No not the biblical Israel I mean the Israel of today? Mass migration and???????

And a UN Partition plan accepted by the Jews and rejected by Arabs. So the Jews simply declared the country to exist. Then a whole bunch of countries recognized it. Not very confusing really.

Originally Posted by tinman01

Oh yes terrorist bombings and societal guilt over allowing Hitler and company to do what they did.

That was part of it.

Originally Posted by tinman01

The land that is called Israel today was british terratory if I am not mistaken. The Brits capitualated to the call for giving the survivors of the holocaust their own country.

You certainly have a right to your opinion, but you owe it to yourself to learn a bit before formulating one. The League of Nations gave what are now known as Israel and Jordan to Great Britain in the form of "The British Mandate." The French received approximately what is now Syria and Lebanon in a similar "Mandate." Google "Psykes-Picot" and learn how the French and British divied up the land that belonged to the Ottoman Empire. The Brits after WWII relenquished most of the territories of the British Empire as the country was broke after WWII and had lost its stomach for empire and what it takes ot maintain one. I would probably also Google "India" and "Pakistan," you don't seem to be aware that the Brits held more territory than just "Palestine."

Originally Posted by tinman01

At whose expense? Oh yeah all the folks who were already living there. And you wonder at why there is hostilities? To make matters worse the Israeli's imeadietely started claiming lands regardless of occupation.
Eviction may be a polite word for it.

You're not quite making sense here and I am not sure what point you are trying to make. Some Arabs were expelled, mainly those who found themselves behind Jewish lines after the hostilities started in what is known as Israel's War of Independence. Israel saw them as a security threat and at that time, during a period of war, ugly and sad things happen. I don't blame the Israelis at that time for not wanting a 5th column. Most though left voluntarilly doing what most civilians do when they are faced with the prospect of getting stuck in the middle of warring armies - they fled.

Originally Posted by tinman01

Yes Israel is now a country and a very prosperous one at that. I wonder why?

It's not hard to figure out. Israel is a center of technological research and innovation. Jews are smart. It's a western leaning advanced society. They work hard and study hard. It's also a liberal democracy unlike its Arab neighbors. Democracies tend to thrive and dictatorships tend to stagnate. Really, this is not complicated stuff.

Originally Posted by tinman01

Now why would Iran have a dispute with Israel? because of the mistreatment of paletinians who are also Muslems and right from the begining long before there was a P.L.O.?

Perhaps. except that until the Islamo-fascist revolution of 1979, Israel and Iran had a friendly relationship. Again, you don't seem to be belligerent here, but you really do owe it to yourself to read up a little on history before trying to comment. You sound silly.

Originally Posted by tinman01

Could it be that Israel at any given time is also threatening Iran?

No. Israel has no inheretent beef with Iran and again, as I pointed out above, it was not until Khomeini came to power in 1979 that Iran became belligerent towards Israel.

Originally Posted by tinman01

Could it be that Israel gets a walk on every issue that the UN brings up and yet Iran gets looked at under the microscope for much the same issues?

No country has faced more ridiculous and one sided UN resolutions than Israel. It's a joke. Iran gets the microscope because they publicly threaten to annihalate their neighbors.

Originally Posted by tinman01

Israel does have a right to exist.

I'm pleased you recognize that.

Originally Posted by tinman01

The real question is does Israel have more of a right to arm themselves with nukes than Iran?

Under Int'l law yes. Iran is a signatory to the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT), while Israel (as well as India and Pakistan) is not.

Originally Posted by tinman01

By the way where did Israel get those nukes anyway?

The Israelis developed their nuclear program in the 1950's with the help of France. At that time, the US was nto a major financial or military supporter of the Israelis. Since then the Israelis have primarily developed their program on their own. Again, Jews are smart people.

Originally Posted by tinman01

Either we gave them to Israel or they developed them on their own. Either way isn't that a violation of the same codes we hold against Iran?

Wrong and Wrong. See above about the origins of Israel's nuclear program and Iran's obligations under the NPT.

Originally Posted by tinman01

Make no mistake I don't want Iran to have nukes. Their track record of supplying terrorist orgs speaks for its self. At the same time lets not paint Israel as these goody goody guys because that they aint.

Nobody is trying to paint Israel as "goody goody guys." We're just pointing out that Iran is clearly a menace and Israel is not.

[geeoro]

When you talk about the vast amount of money that America has given Israel. Does the Vast amount of money that America gave the PLO and Araffat put into his French Bank Account mean nothing. He let his people starve as he hid his stash abroad,. Israel has developed into a world power by democracy and not by being ruled by power crazy madmen. The Arab world attacked Israel and tried to blow them off the face of the world. The Arabs got a bloody nose and can't get over it. If they want peace then they will have to learn to live with the rest of the world, not just Arab dictated states.

[tinman01]

Rb good over all post and I stand corrected on a few issues.
I do disagree on a few things. Israel did infact treat the people of the land very badly from the begining.
I understood and I am aware of what the league of nations did with the ottoman empire. That in no small part helped fan the flames for WWII.
But the land was Englands and they did surrender it to the Israeli's after quite a bit of terrorist activity and mass migration. Illegal migration at that. I am aware of India and Pakistan they were not relevent to the topic. On this one you split hairs.
By leaving voluntarily I guess you could call it that. They were treated very badly. Who would stay if they had no power to fight?
Israels wealth in no small part is due to their savy business sense as well as having (US) for one heck of a sugar daddy... Why does such a wealthy nation need such a generous hand out??? They don't but our elected officials are overly influenced by the jewish lobby who contributes handsomely to both parties.
Could it be Iran was not belligerent towards Israel because the Shaw was a bit of a puppet of ours? Yes Komeni famed those flames big time . No argument here on that. But at the same time Israel wastes no time threatening Iran. To say otherwise is what is silly. Israel is constantly threatening to fly into Iran and bomb suspected sights. Right or wrong they in fact do make these threats.
Israel gets a hard look by the UN because they richly deserve it. Their human rights record is less than desirable. They leveled a city in Lebanon needlessly. They attacked their own allies during their occupation of Lebanon. Nothing new there they also attacked one of our ships and only broke off the attack due to a Russian destroyer answering the distress call. The USS Liberty...
As far Iran is a menace I agree. But then ask Israels neighbors how they feel about Israel? No doubt many feel Israel is a bigger menace.
Look I trained with the IDF. I respect their abilities. But I also got to know them. Its not about threat anymore with them. They took delight in humilating people at random just because the could..
Israel by far over kills when they respond.
As I said before I don't want Iran to have nukes. But after training and working with the IDF It will take a lot of change in Israel before I believe they want peace. They want land, and they want to get rid of any Palestinians who are left. Actions speak louder than words. Israels actions are loud and clear.

[tinman01]

Originally Posted by geeoro

When you talk about the vast amount of money that America has given Israel. Does the Vast amount of money that America gave the PLO and Araffat put into his French Bank Account mean nothing. He let his people starve as he hid his stash abroad,. Israel has developed into a world power by democracy and not by being ruled by power crazy madmen. The Arab world attacked Israel and tried to blow them off the face of the world. The Arabs got a bloody nose and can't get over it. If they want peace then they will have to learn to live with the rest of the world, not just Arab dictated states.

The same can be said about Israel. The amount of money we gave the Palestinians is a drop in the bucket compared to Israel. Did Israel use that money for the common good of all its citizens including the arabs???
One need only visit Israel to see the truth. I have been there quite a few times and saw with my own eyes how hard Israel tries to keep the peace.. They just have a strange approach is all. We love you so we humiliate you. We care about you so we punish at random. Its called tough love. Give me a break if that happened here we would have another civil war.

[geeoro]

Israel IS a nation. It has the same right to exist as any nation on this planet. Tell me a nation that wasn't created by the spoils of war? The Arab world must accept that Israel is here to stay. Most Arab nations are coming to realise this fact. Countries like Iran can either accept Israel or suffer the consequences. If the Palastinians, Iran, Syria etc. Stop funding and being a part of terror (worldwide) maybe we can have peace. Until then we will live in a state of war.

[tinman01]

Originally Posted by geeoro

Israel IS a nation. It has the same right to exist as any nation on this planet. Tell me a nation that wasn't created by the spoils of war? The Arab world must accept that Israel is here to stay. Most Arab nations are coming to realise this fact. Countries like Iran can either accept Israel or suffer the consequences. If the Palastinians, Iran, Syria etc. Stop funding and being a part of terror (worldwide) maybe we can have peace. Until then we will live in a state of war.

And perhaps if Israel could accept the Palestinians right to exist, treat them like human beings, honor the treaties that they have signed other Arab nations would be even more accepting.
I don't deny Israels right to exist. I deny that they are the victims. They provoke a great deal of the animosity that comes their way. We don't help by giving them a pass everytime they over kill. What I am saying is we should hold them to the same standard that we hold Iran and Syria too.
We need to stop sheltering them. We need to end the excessive foreign aid to them. Besides we need it here at home more than they do.

[geeoro]

Maybe when all the settlers moved out of Palastine and Israel tried to appease the Palastinians only to be rewarded with missile attack after missile attack or suicide bombers, Israel should have said to the PLO "well done, good job you are doing". Israel has the right to defend itself. The palastinians now have the land they sooo frantacally craved and they still can't get their act together. They are the ones who need to move forward and grasp the opportunity they now have to become a nation. Not keep attacking Israel and then cry when Israel defends itself.