Iran Really DOES Have A Case For Nukes (deaths, Barack Obama, compare)

[Mircea]

Originally Posted by geeoro

Letting Iran develop a Nuclear Bomb will be like giving a machine gun to a five year old.

There's no evidence Iran has a nuclear weapons program.

Originally Posted by geeoro

Iran thinks that they can threaten other countries with destruction and get away with it, NO WAY JOSE.

Iran hasn't threatened anyone.

Originally Posted by geeoro

Iran funds international terrorism and is hell bent on destruction.

And the US doesn't fund terrorism? It seems the US believes that Iran's funding of international terrorism is just peachy and the US even gives money to Iran to fund their terrorism by buying weapons from Iran for the Contras and others.

In April 1994, President Clinton gave the government of Croatia what has been described by Congressional committees as a "green light" for shipments of weapons from Iran and other Muslim countries to the Muslim-led government of Bosnia. The policy was approved at the urging of NSC chief Anthony Lake and the U.S. ambassador to Croatia Peter Galbraith. The CIA and the Departments of State and Defense were kept in the dark until after the decision was made.

Oh, I'm sorry, didn't you read the Senate Intelligence Committee and the House Select Subcommittee to Investigate the United States Role in Iranian Arms Transfers to Croatia and Bosnia?

[T]he dollar amount mentioned in the report was $500 million-$800 million. The U.S. official said he also saw subsequent 'operational reports' in 1995 on almost weekly arms shipments of automatic weapons, rocket-propelled grenade launchers, anti-armor rockets and TOW missiles." [TNR, 10/28/96] The United States played a disturbingly "hands-on" role, with, according to the Senate report (page 19), U.S. government personnel twice conducting inspections in Croatia of missiles en route to Bosnia.

"The U.S. decision to send personnel to Croatia to inspect rockets bound for Bosnia is . . . subject to varying interpretations. It may have been simply a straightforward effort to determine whether chemical weapons were being shipped into Bosnia. It was certainly, at least in part, an opportunity to examine a rocket in which the United States had some interest. But it may also have been designed to ensure that Croatia would not shut down the pipeline." (page 21)

Wow, $500 Million to $800 Million in US tax payer money to the Iranian "terrorist funding government" for weapons.

And oh yes, the neo-conservative Tony Lake is one of Obama's chief foreign policy advisors and will probably be in the White House if Obama wins.

I wonder what undeclared wars and illegal military actions Obama will be taking?

Originally Posted by geeoro

We cannot afford to let them destroy the world.

Only because the US wants to do it first.

Originally Posted by geeoro

Bit late to say i told you so when a city in America has been anhialated because of the PC brigade favouring a Despot regime in Iran.

It was the neo-conservatives Gary Sick and Zbigniew Brzezinski who screwed up Iran in the first place. If they had listed to Haig and Sullivan, Iran would still be an ally.

Unless Iran develops ICBMs or SLBMs, your fantasy will never happen.

Originally Posted by geeoro

Israel can and always will fight its own battles and that's what scares Iran.

No it doesn't. I'll be happy to war game you. I'll even play Iran.

[bily4]

I for one am sick and tired of anybody that questions - why we continue to give Israel 1/3 of our total foreign aid every single year, hundreds of billions of dollars over the years, getting branded as Anti-Semetic or a Jew Hater.

Hey fiscal conservatives that hate seeing their taxes raised to pay for anything....where is your outrage?

I have never been to the West Bank or the Gaza Strip and know nobody from over there.

I care about them about as much as they care about me.

Very sad they are fighting. Jujst as it is sad they fight in Darfur and in lots of other nasty places. I'll keep them in my prayers.

But stop asking us for more money. We have already made Israel one of the Richest nations in the entire World.

When is enough enough??

[rb4browns]

Originally Posted by tinman01

No I am not racist towards Jewish people and nothing I have said indicates that I am. The fact is that the jewish lobby is one of the most powerful in DC.
Strategic reasons for aid? Yes to a point. But at what point does the price tag become to high>
USS Liberty. Sorry I trust the words and accounts of those who were on board. Israel claimed that they thought the USS Liberty was an Egyption trawler. Fact is it was flying the american flagged and looked nothing like an Egyption Trawler. By the which account that Israel gave to you refer to? The one where the Lyberty was doing 28 knots and not flying a flag?
The one where they say the Liberty never IDentified itself?
The Liberty was an old ship. On its best day 25knots may have been possible but never to cruise at such a speed.
The USS Liberty did infact identify itself many times. The Israeli's refused to break off the attack. Many listening posts throughout the med heard the transmitions including our embassy in Beirut and the Russian destroyer.. We had 2 carrier battle groups in the med. Both were ordered to stand down. LBJ said" I don't care if every sailor on that ship drowns we will not attack Israel".
Fact the war between Israel and Egypt was over so even that excuse is thin.
The allies they attacked in lebanon during the occupation were the Christian arabs who supported Israel.
One

To say that any religious or ethnic group has "undue" influence is racist. Sorry buddy, your words not mine.

With regards to the Liberty, the Wikipedia page actually has a fairly balanced presentation of viewpoints. I'll let the gentle readers of our little exchange make up their own minds on it.

[geeoro]

The "media" reports what is happening. They don't create the news just cover it ( unless you are in Iran where the state run news repeats only what the dictators want) This "you only see what the media want you to see" is getting a bit old now.
When a Terrorist kills innocent civilians i can understand why their families homes should be bulldozed. Stop them hiding there and seeking sanctuary.
Maybe Israel should only fire slingshot as the Palastinians fire missiles on a daily basis at Israel?
I was in Israel last year and i completely agree with the tactics that the Israeli Armed forces are using. So does everyone i spoke to their. They want to be able to bring their families up in peace. The arab terrorists have other plans. Israel will defend its people and land with every ounce of blood and every man woman and child. If Iran etc want to go toe to toe with Israel, PLEASE don't let them cry over the responce they will get. Israel is losing it's patience and will not hold back too much longer.

[rb4browns]

Originally Posted by tinman01

Yes heard and seen what the media wanted us to see. But then why does Israel rebuild on lands they signed away?
Did you not see homes of palestinians being bulldozed?
Did you not see Israeli gunships fireing hellfire missiles into homes regardless of the collatoral damage?
Did you not see IDF troops beating Palestinians not because they did anything wrong but because they were palestinians?
Watch some BBC to get your news.
Or better still take a trip over there and see for yourself.

I've had the pleasure of trekking in both Gaza as well as what's known as the West Bank. Have you?

I applaud the bulldozing of the homes of terrorists. Bravo!

WHere else should Israel fire their missiles when the terrorist scum being targeted hide behind skirts?

Yes, watch the BBC indeed.

[tinman01]

Originally Posted by bily4

I for one am sick and tired of anybody that questions - why we continue to give Israel 1/3 of our total foreign aid every single year, hundreds of billions of dollars over the years, getting branded as Anti-Semetic or a Jew Hater.

Hey fiscal conservatives that hate seeing their taxes raised to pay for anything....where is your outrage?

I have never been to the West Bank or the Gaza Strip and know nobody from over there.

I care about them about as much as they care about me.

Very sad they are fighting. Jujst as it is sad they fight in Darfur and in lots of other nasty places. I'll keep them in my prayers.

But stop asking us for more money. We have already made Israel one of the Richest nations in the entire World.

When is enough enough??

Ah shipmate I hear you. Some folks believe we owe it to Israel to secure our place in gods thoughts. I wish no harm upon Israel. I just don't believe they are worth the billions that we give them. They have betrayed our confidence and trust in more ways than can be counted.
I can say Israel's military is amoung the best well trained and outfitted in the world. I worked with them and saw it first hand.
I also wonder if we spent those billions outfitting our troops with dragon armor and armored up our humvees how many boys would still be alive, walking,and at home with their families? How many of our troops has our aid to Israel saved? Glad they use our money so well.

[rb4browns]

Originally Posted by saganista

Hmmm. What differences are there in the chances that your death will be reported in the New York Times (and other US media) if you are a Palestinian killed by an Israeli, or if you are an Israeli killed by a Palestinian?


Iran is not a menace in many minds beyond those that take the words Muslim and Islamo-facsist to be interchangeable. Israel has often been a menace, as has the US. These menacing interludes tend to happen in the respective countries under similar circumstances: when right-wingers and hard-liners hold the reins of power.

Funny how both sides think the NY Times is on the other's side. Americans share a closer cultural, religious and political affinity with Israelis then they do with the Palestinians. That's probably my guess when it comes to the NY Times choosing whose death to report on. Or maybe it's just because the Jews control the media.

[rb4browns]

Originally Posted by tinman01

Ah shipmate I hear you. Some folks believe we owe it to Israel to secure our place in gods thoughts. I wish no harm upon Israel. I just don't believe they are worth the billions that we give them. They have betrayed our confidence and trust in more ways than can be counted.
I can say Israel's military is amoung the best well trained and outfitted in the world. I worked with them and saw it first hand.
I also wonder if we spent those billions outfitting our troops with dragon armor and armored up our humvees how many boys would still be alive, walking,and at home with their families? How many of our troops has our aid to Israel saved? Glad they use our money so well.

The technological advancements pioneered and perfected by the IDF has indeed saved countless American lives. And in the context of a $1.2+ Trillion dollar budget, the idea that Israel's aid has taken away from the American war effort is a concept only an imbecile would entertain.

[bily4]

Originally Posted by tinman01

Ah shipmate I hear you. Some folks believe we owe it to Israel to secure our place in gods thoughts. I wish no harm upon Israel. I just don't believe they are worth the billions that we give them. They have betrayed our confidence and trust in more ways than can be counted.
I can say Israel's military is amoung the best well trained and outfitted in the world. I worked with them and saw it first hand.
I also wonder if we spent those billions outfitting our troops with dragon armor and armored up our humvees how many boys would still be alive, walking,and at home with their families? How many of our troops has our aid to Israel saved? Glad they use our money so well.

I am with you shipmate.

Hey all you Fundie Israel Lovers - put your money where your mouth is when you say you support our troops.

That 3 Billion we give the Israelis would be well spent in our own War on Terror supporting our miltary and veterans protecting your asses.

The Israelis sure as hell are not out there with us.

[bily4]

Originally Posted by rb4browns

The technological advancements pioneered and perfected by the IDF has indeed saved countless American lives. And in the context of a $1.2+ Trillion dollar budget, the idea that Israel's aid has taken away from the American war effort is a concept only an imbecile would entertain.

Oh, now it is an "American" War Effort?

I thought Israel would be leaping on joining us in the Global War on Terror.


Guess they are too busy with the Palestinians.