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we did not physically wipe an entire country off the map. They failed economically, what Ahmadinejad is calling for is a physical destruction of Israel, pretty big difference if you ask me.
I ask only because Ahmadinejad specifically cited the example of the Soviet Union (and that of the former Baathist regime in Baghdad) as comparable in his longing for an end, not of Israel, but of the Zionist regime in Jerusalem.
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Originally Posted by Noahma
he did not only call to wipe them off the map, but to push them into the sea, to bring the sky to fire, ohh what else was in his many threats...
Hmmm. Maybe you could provide some sources. Perhaps the less excitable amongst us could then have a look through those to see what was actually said.
I agree, I don't see the comparison at all with the USSR, unless you want to compare Ahmadinejad's speeches with Khrushchev's "we will bury you" comment in the early 1960's.
Well, the comparison has been there from the very beginning because Ahmadinejad put it there. In context and translated properly (one of the first rules of transalation is not to translate into idiom), it is rather clear that the concept, first promulgated long ago by Khomeini and merely recalled in 2005 by Ahmadinejad, is a reliance upon the course of history to undo injustice. In addition to the USSR and Iraq, Ahmadinejad spoke of his own country's eventual escape from the brutal rule of the Shah. Clearly, he was not thinking that Iran had been "wiped off the map"...
You call the NY Times one sided as if there is only 2 sides to any story. It's the Times' job to report on news of interest to its readers. Again, more Americans feel a social/religious connection to the Israelis, so what happens to the Israelis gets the press.
US media have consistently reported just one side of the story. That they should learn that two or more exist would be a great improvement. And I suspect that, even as far as the NY Times may have fallen over recent decades, they would bristle indeed at a suggestion that their job is to report only what one segment of its readers wishes to hear. No newspaper or other medium of any repute at all wishes to serve merely as a means for feeding the biases of the masses.
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Originally Posted by rb4browns
As far as the one sidedness of the casualites etcetera. Ya, big bad Israel, how dare they not lose a military conflict. Why, they should let more of their own women and children die to people like you will think things are "fair."
All we hear from the disinformed right-wing is stories of human shields, rocket attacks, and suicide bombings, all of which would be contemptible if they were occurring in a vacuum. They occur however in an enviroment that is defined by a long history of brutal occupation and wantonly destructive operations by the Israeli side. For every Palestinian provocation, there are five by the Israelis. The role of the latter in provoking and continually refueling this conflict is simply undeniable. That role should be recognized.
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Originally Posted by rb4browns
Intifada is an Arabic word. Here's a thought - how about not starting a military conflict with the neighbor when the neighbor can kick you a*s?
Stupid is as stupid does. That's the story of the Palestinians for the past 60 years. Don't blame Israel for that.
That sort of thing should have been long ago left behind on the elementary school playground where it originated.
Ahh, once again, for the mathematically challenged like this poster - The US Federal Government has a budget well over a Trillion dollars.
FY 2008 appropriations will result in total federal expenditures of a little over $2.9 trillion. The budget for all foreign aid operations (international affairs) is about $37 billion.
Israel has given the US a tremendous amount of assistance in the form of training and technology they have developed in their fight against Palestinian terrorism. Oh darn, there I go with facts again. My bad!
It might have been more accurate to say that Israel has given the US a tremendous amount of cooperation and assistance in the form of research, training, logistics, intelligence, and technology, some of which they have then turned around and used in their on-going fight against pretty much Palestinians in general.
It might have been more accurate to say that Israel has given the US a tremendous amount of cooperation and assistance in the form of research, training, logistics, intelligence, and technology, some of which they have then turned around and used in their on-going fight against pretty much Palestinians in general.
Yes, Israelis wake up in the morning and think, "geez, i'm bored, let's just go kill some random Palestinians for fun."
I agree that it was an over eager attack. I disagree that Israel even attempted to stand up for what they did and still don't. I also say that our own gov has assisted them in trying to cover it up.
The whole point is Israel tends to get a whole lot of walks that they really don't deserve.
No, the point here is that Israel did not intentionally target an American ship and it's sailors. Whether or not it was swept under the rug to avoid political fallout if a fair discussion. But that is very different than saying Israel intentionally attacked and killed American servicemen.
Lying? No I just don't need to justify my Career to you. If we ever meet which is doubtful I can show you a few pics and some awards. Did you ever serve? I ask with respect. I grow weary of everyone wanting to know if I were ever shot, show me the scars, did you ever shoot anyone etc. Worse still when its someone who has never served requesting that I prove my service. I served with honor and pride. That should be enough of an answer for any vet. Non-vets quite simply didn't earn the right to question the service of a vet.
The fed budget: Come on now. The military gets its share and not a penny more. Its understood. Its also understood that foreign aid is handed out not based on need or even because its a nice thing to do. Its handed out because lobbiest's whisper in the right ears and arms are twisted and thats dc politics. Foreign aid is an issue. How can we afford it when we are spending more than we have? Its not just the aid to Israel I question. I question all of it.
Terrorism would stop if Israel? NO you will have the idiots. What Israel does is help create a recruiters dream come true. By lashing out at people at random it makes the case for the terrorist recruiters.If Israel instead retaliated in a more controled precise way limiteding civilian casualties it would lesson the hostilities of the average Palestinian.
Not so different than the IRA and England. Think back to the 60's and 70's. We more or less turned a blind eye to a lot of the funds crossing the Atlantic to support the IRA. This did in fact cause some tension between England and the USA.
Snipers. Thank you you make my point. Use snipers instead of hellfire missiles and bulldozers.
Is your neighbor a sniper? Mine are not. So if you or I were held at gunpoint after someone launched a mortor attack it would be acceptable to blow mine or your house up and your neighbors to kill a few suspected bad guys? I think not.
Buried in the ground?
They enjoy something pretty much no one else in the world does. A blank check of support from the most powerful nation on earth. They have more than 1 option. They have chosen to disregard many because it would mean giving up the land they already were supposed too.
I did not serve. My father was in the Air Force and Grandfather and two uncles in the Marine Corps. I grew up in a military family 2 miles from Camp Pendleton. I'm not asking you for war stories or "if you killed anybody." Please.
You made an assertion that you have "inside information" on Israel, the IDF and it's conflict with the Palestinians. Specifically, you have made the claim that you have operated in both Gaza and the West Bank with the IDF. Through my own professional and personal life I have a number of very close friends in the IDF and have worked with members of the IDF in non-combat related matters. Simply put, I don't believe you have the experience you are pretending to have in Israel. That you are so defensive and evasive in an anonymous forum confirms my doubts. If your work was so top secret you wouldn't be posting about it in the first place.
For everything else I honor and thank you for your service to our country.
But back to my point, you demonstrate your ignorance of the situation by asserting that Israel somehow could magically control its terrorism problems through precise "pinprick" operations. My sniper comment was facetious. In the instances where such strikes are possible they are done.
Every dollar the foreign govt. hands out is done so because a lobbyist is whispering in someones ear. Military dollars are no different - how many congressman keep bullsh*t weapons programs alive to keep dollars flowing to their districts. Make no mistake about it, I am a hawk when it comes to our military and think a larger military and a larger military budget is a good thing. I object to your silly assertion that the money given to Israel (or Egypt or any other country) is taking away money that could be channeled towards our troops. Like I said, I grew up near Camp Pendleton and knew young Marine families on welfare and food stamps. That's an outrage that they do not get paid enough but don't blame Israel for it.
I ask only because Ahmadinejad specifically cited the example of the Soviet Union (and that of the former Baathist regime in Baghdad) as comparable in his longing for an end, not of Israel, but of the Zionist regime in Jerusalem.
Hmmm. Maybe you could provide some sources. Perhaps the less excitable amongst us could then have a look through those to see what was actually said.
"They have invented a myth that Jews were massacred and place this above God, religions and the prophets."
"We ask the West to remove what they created sixty years ago and if they do not listen to our recommendations, then the Palestinian nation and other nations will eventually do this for them."
"The real Holocaust is what is happening in Palestine where the Zionists avail themselves of the fairy tale of Holocaust as blackmail and justification for killing children and women and making innocent people homeless."
"The West claims that more than six million Jews were killed in World War II and to compensate for that they established and support Israel. If it is true that the Jews were killed in Europe, why should Israel be established in the East, in Palestine?"
"If you have burned the Jews, why don't you give a piece of Europe, the United States, Canada or Alaska to Israel. Our question is, if you have committed this huge crime, why should the innocent nation of Palestine pay for this crime?"
"Anybody who recognizes Israel will burn in the fire of the Islamic nation's fury."
"Remove Israel before it is too late and save yourself from the fury of regional nations."
"The skirmishes in the occupied land are part of a war of destiny. The outcome of hundreds of years of war will be defined in Palestinian land. As the Imam said, Israel must be wiped off the map."
"If the West does not support Israel, this regime will be toppled. As it has lost its raison d' tre, Israel will be annihilated."
"Israel is a tyrannical regime that will one day will be destroyed."
"Israel is a rotten, dried tree that will be annihilated in one storm."
Relations with West
"[There is] no significant need for the United States."
"Iranians possess delicate characteristics. They introduce their merits, which are extremely attractive to whole the world."
"We are ready to hold dialogue with all countries of the world except for the Israeli regime."
"Those who insulted the prophet should know that you cannot obscure the sun with a handful of dust. The dust will just get back and blind your own eyes."
"We increasingly see that people around the world are flocking towards a main focal point - that is the Almighty God. My question for you is, 'Do you not want to join them?'"
"There are no limits to our dialogue."
"Do you think you are dealing with a 4-year-old child to whom you can give some walnuts and chocolates and get gold from him?"
Conspiracy theory
"Could [9/11] be planned and executed without coordination with intelligence and security services - or their extensive infiltration? Of course this is just an educated guess. Why have the various aspects of the attacks been kept secret? Why are we not told who botched their responsibilities? And, why aren't those responsible and the guilty parties identified and put on trial?"
Freedom of speech
"We believe that accurate dissemination of news and information is necessary for political growth and awareness as well as effective interaction among nations in today's world.
Yes, Israelis wake up in the morning and think, "geez, i'm bored, let's just go kill some random Palestinians for fun."
Sure.
I have no doubt that some aspects of Israel's often brutal occupation and wantonly destructive operations against the Palestinians have been thought up in the afternoon. But thought up and then implemented, they indeed have been...
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