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Old 07-21-2008, 03:11 PM
 
Location: Tampa
3,975 posts, read 6,981,775 times
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what, if any, Individual Rights should be curtailed or even done away with for the Common Good?

We make many exceptions already, what would you like to see more or less of?

For example, some people say they should be able to do ANYTHING on their property. Most people would disagree. (not many want a skunk farm next door).

thoughts?
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Old 07-21-2008, 03:17 PM
 
Location: PA
4,904 posts, read 2,938,936 times
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Individual rights that do not harm or steal from another person should be promoted which is the form of good government.
"Common good" in the hands of government means government will steal and harm individuals to benefit groups or the few.

So you decide individual rights or common good.
Individual rights with liberty gives us good laws and good government to protect the individual as long as it is not harming or stealing from your neighbor.
Common good clause uses force to bring about social and economic differences as so desired by the few in power.
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Old 07-21-2008, 03:52 PM
 
Location: North Cackelacky....in the hills.
19,556 posts, read 12,222,606 times
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Could you give an example of where individual rights should be curtailed for the common good?

To me I simply cannot think of any.
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Old 07-21-2008, 03:57 PM
 
Location: Beautiful Lakes & Mountains of East TN
3,454 posts, read 4,802,751 times
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"should be" or "are" curtailed?

Right now, my right to enjoy the fruits of my labor, is curtailed by the fact that the govt takes a huge chunk of my money to pay for the "common good" of people who need help...along with some who just want help, and some who shouldn't be here to begin with who are given help to stay here...on and on it goes.

Not to say we shouldn't look out for folks who are down on their luck, but the extent to which we offer a helping hand is a little extreme in many cases. Instead of a helping hand, we're paying for an entire way of life for that person, his/her family, and in turn, their descendents as they go on to pass the legacy along through the generations.

And the taxpayer has no say in the matter, whatsoever.
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Old 07-21-2008, 04:05 PM
 
3,964 posts, read 2,145,306 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbkaren View Post
"should be" or "are" curtailed?

Right now, my right to enjoy the fruits of my labor, is curtailed by the fact that the govt takes a huge chunk of my money to pay for the "common good" of people who need help...along with some who just want help, and some who shouldn't be here to begin with who are given help to stay here...on and on it goes.

Not to say we shouldn't look out for folks who are down on their luck, but the extent to which we offer a helping hand is a little extreme in many cases. Instead of a helping hand, we're paying for an entire way of life for that person, his/her family, and in turn, their descendents as they go on to pass the legacy along through the generations.

And the taxpayer has no say in the matter, whatsoever.
Totally agree...and I stand by the fact that if I had more of my dax dollars back in my own hands I would donate more money to charities that are MUCH more efficient at helping the "down on their luck" than the government is.
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Old 07-21-2008, 04:41 PM
 
Location: PA
4,904 posts, read 2,938,936 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oz in SC View Post
Could you give an example of where individual rights should be curtailed for the common good?

To me I simply cannot think of any.

Oh you mean making your own money and not stealing from you to give to your neighbor because he believes he is entitled to your money for the common good of equality. Your neighbor wasted all his money, gets high all day or spent it unwisely. I guess welfare of that person is the common good. It all depends on how you define the "common good". Maybe we can define the common good as taking ones house so the government can build low income housing, paid for via your tax dollars.
Maybe the common good clause would work the we take everyones guns so they can't defend themselves against robbers, rapist and murders and corrupt governments. The german citizens and jews were unarmed for the common good how did that work out?. The individuals right to live, have personal liberty to make his own decisions on who he or she marrys and how many children he or she should have could be controlled for the common good. After all in China is you have girls they kill them for the common good of society. Individual rights and liberty become problems when individuals dont have responsbility in society for their actions and they want government or neighbors to bail them out for the common good. Government doesn't make people responsible it makes them dependant on the illusion that they are doing something for the common good. How about censoring free speech, music and art is that done for the common good. In N Korea they banned all music that consider not "good" and for the common good of the people. Classical music is banned in some places, and jazz and other music for the common good. Does that individual not have the right to play or express themselves do they not have the individual right over the common good designed by the Government. Or what you eat and how much you can eat. I find your faith in common good clause is based on the delusion that the common good fits everyone. To regulate morals and sins and what people do with their bodies for the common good. To have tattos or not for the common good and morals of society.
If doesn't hurt or violate others rights it is a natural right. You dont have the right to steal or murder from others you will find individual rights support liberty more the common good rules.
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Old 07-21-2008, 04:55 PM
 
11,853 posts, read 11,560,324 times
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What individual right is lost for the common good? The right to be a nuisance I guess... Playing loud music all through the night and not caring about your neighbors, touching people inappropriately, living with 20 other people in a small room, destroying public property because you feel like it... etc. etc. In other words hazardous behavior or "intentionally" infringing on the prosperity of another.... like those kind of things... I hate taxes because I am paying for a lot of stuff I don't need or use but I understand that sometimes people "need" help so I am okay with some sort of base tax BUT we have gone way above and beyond that... current taxes are outright theft to make a "big government" style of rule...
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Old 07-21-2008, 05:09 PM
 
Location: PA
4,904 posts, read 2,938,936 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evilnewbie View Post
What individual right is lost for the common good? The right to be a nuisance I guess... Playing loud music all through the night and not caring about your neighbors, touching people inappropriately, living with 20 other people in a small room, destroying public property because you feel like it... etc. etc. In other words hazardous behavior or "intentionally" infringing on the prosperity of another.... like those kind of things... I hate taxes because I am paying for a lot of stuff I don't need or use but I understand that sometimes people "need" help so I am okay with some sort of base tax BUT we have gone way above and beyond that... current taxes are outright theft to make a "big government" style of rule...
Again it goes back to the does it interfere with others rights. Touching people inappropriately is a violation of other persons rights. public property is not an individual right because its not your individual property. Playing loud music could be an individual right, but your neighbors will complain and cause the local government to take action. Most people back in the day would just take their radio and make it louder until the person found out the lesson the hardway. After all normal things like loud radios is not really a constitutional right. That is more left up the local government or state government and reserved to the right of people. Like talking on your cell phone while driving could be a individual right, and or the government might think in the best of common good you pay attention to driving. Then again does it end there, are radios banned in cars, or eating food and driving. I believe individuals have the right to have a radio, talk on the cell phone and eat while driving in fact I dont believe in seat belt laws. You dont wear a seat beat and die that is your fault.
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Old 07-21-2008, 05:09 PM
 
19,178 posts, read 20,218,026 times
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So long as you live in the presence of other individuals, your individual rights will always be limited by the points at which those rights begin to conflict with the rights of those other individuals. There are no Marlboro Men, no Sovereign Citizens whose individuality is so great as to exempt them from this rule.
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Old 07-21-2008, 05:14 PM
 
Location: Beautiful Lakes & Mountains of East TN
3,454 posts, read 4,802,751 times
Reputation: 854
Quote:
Originally Posted by oz in SC View Post
Could you give an example of where individual rights should be curtailed for the common good?

To me I simply cannot think of any.
I believe we have to be clear...Oz said he/she cannot think of any examples where individual rights SHOULD be curtailed for the common good.

We can all think of plenty of examples of where they're currently being curtailed...whether ultimately they result in a benefit to the common good or not.
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